Epic Six - Sullla's Game

[Sullla]

Here you go, same place as always:

http://civ4info.com/Sullla/civ4_epic6_1.html

Beating up on Noble AIs was fun.

[darrelljs]

By the time I finished my Agriculture research in 3430BC, I was starting to wonder where the AIs were. Umm, I wasn't expecting quite THIS much of a safety cushion at the start!

I think you gave the Noble AI way too much credit. I defended Berlin with Warriors until after the CS slingshot (didn't even bother with Archery). Your gameplan was perfect for Monarch++, but at this difficulty level you can get away with quite a bit. I suspect its been a while since you played down here

Anyway, the conservative start didn't make any difference (the 1010 A.D. screenshot pretty much sums it up, outresearching the rest of the world combined!), you totally thrashed the AI

Gandhi has been completely neutralized by the parking of this single archer.

Exploitive?

Darrell

[pindicator]

Sorry you missed your goal of winning prior to 1502AD, but look at the bright side: I bet you'll get the Honorable Mention for most cities in 1502AD! 40, wow!

I was able to do the same thing to Dehli, but unintentionally! When I captured Bombay in my game, the borders expanded far enough that Ghandi treated it just like an enemy unit and never moved his fast workers out again.

Great analysis on the Epic, Sullla. I actually had Washington as the AI tech leader in my game (once I killed Saladin); Spain was the one that drew the short straw. But I was very puzzled as to why the AI teched so awfully: I'll agree that Tech Trading being turned off had a lot to do with it, but I think it was that combined with the poor land that did them in. You just didn't see the cottage spam that you're used to from AIs in this game. Roosevelt did comparatively well because he was financial and on the coast.

[Ronald]

Great conquest victory . I'm sure you had a lot of fun with this one.

[Kylearan]

Hi,

good report, as always, but I'm really astonished that you of all players exploited the AI by parking an archer at Gandhi's capital in the beginning. Very effective for sure, you were able to expand "peacefully" much more than I was, and got an early capital too, but...for someone who had griped about people milking the game and going for other exploits in earlier events, this was a bit strange to read.

Anyway, what I also found amazing was that you only had to fight archers the whole game! Your AIs had an even slower tech pace than mine; I faced longbows in the 12th century already. Not that they were able to cause any trouble, but still - I wonder what caused this.

-Kylearan

[LKendter]

Haven't read the report yet, but I can tell you blew me out of the water just from the comments.

[Rik Meleet]

Good performed conquest operation.
I agree with the comments that the Archer-parking might be taking advantage of an AI-shortcoming. Even if I had known of this I wouldn't have done it on Noble.

Your units saw a lot more enemy units inside your lands than I did. Even before my Yaroslavl-capture I only had smaller stacks to fight. Could that difference be related to my 3 scouts compared to your 1 scout ?

[sooooo]

Nicely done Sullla. Cavalry rushes are great fun when the AI doesn't have rifles. I like the way you stick to your principles and refuse to raze most of the cities, even if it would get a faster conquest.

Re: The supposed "exploit": I don't understand people who are criticising someone for an archer-park. This cannot be an exploit, because it is not listed in the disallowed exploits list. Until it is, the archer-park is fair game and people who use it should not be criticised for it.

[darrelljs]

Re: The supposed "exploit": I don't understand people who are criticising someone for an archer-park. This cannot be an exploit, because it is not listed in the disallowed exploits list. Until it is, the archer-park is fair game and people who use it should not be criticised for it.

It is not banned, but that doesn't mean it isn't an exploit. For example, Sulla is on record as saying Worker sniping is an exploit and he doesn't do it in any of his private games or SGs. This despite the fact that it isn't banned (nothing is, yet!). I asked the question mostly because I was curious what difference he saw with this tactic. He's cleary an honorable player and I'm sure he'll have a rationale for employing this tactic, I just want to know what it is

Darrell

[Sullla]

Interesting that people would raise the issue of plopping an archer next to Delhi in the early going as exploitative. That thought never even crossed my mind. I suppose the rationale goes something like this:

Back in Civ3, our second Always War game (Epic 14) featured the Greeks and their 1/3/1 hoplite unique unit. One of the things that came out of that game was the revelation that you could cripple the AI - absolutely CRIPPLE it - by pillaging it into the stone age early and often, then parking units outside the AI cities to ensure that further tile improvements were never constructed. No one raised the issue of exploits then; I was applying the same principle here. Of course, we have an almost entirely different community now than we did three years ago.

I don't see an issue with this because the game is Always War. I mean, I'm at WAR with the target civ. This isn't blindsiding the AI with war declarations it can't possibly see coming to snipe workers. We're at war, and if I can spare the resources to choke them in the early going, well, I'm going to do it! War is hell, after all. (One warrior is not enough to choke an AI, by the way. They will attack with archers and kill it. You really need two archers to be safe, but I made do with just one here.)

Again, how is this more exploitative than founding your second city on the copper, whipping out axes ASAP, and then conquering Delhi in 2000BC? A choking strategy just has a bit more finesse. If the AI is not strong enough to remove my pillaging units from their territory, while we're at war, that's incumbent upon their side, not mine!