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Not sure if anyone here was already aware of it, but I've found out about a new bug for Conquests that specifically affects custom-map games. Unfortunately, that also includes all 9 of the 'Conquests!' that came with C3C. Basically, Civ doesn't know how to interepret a non-standard map size, so (rather than defaulting to standard...) retains the same world size settings as the last random-map game played!!!
Specifically, the OCN and Tech Cost factors could vary from Tiny to Huge, depending on what your last game was, even in multiple iterations of the same scenario. I've posted a more detailed description in the RBCiv Conquests SG Discussion Thread at Civfanatics.
Cheiftess claims it's been known since the Beta, but I certainly hadn't heard of it, nor seen any mention of it. It seems to most directly affect the Conquest SGs, but could potentially have a major effect on any Epics done with a custom map. Anyone wanting to use a custom map would need to create a seperate .BIQ, and change the world settings for all world sizes to be the same (desired) amount.
Did anyone else already know this? Maybe I'm just missing something. BTW, I did test it myself, not only with SeedBeast, but also just by loading several random games, then starting the Mesopatamia scenario. Costs for the starting techs swung (as expected), doubling between a game started after a Small map game and after a Huge map game.
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I knew there was something screwy with map sizes. Both of the Epics I sponsored this year were on small maps but had standard-map values for OCN and tech costs when I playtested them. I didn't worry about it because just recreating each scenario made that problem go away, but now we see exactly why that happened. Good job tracking down the exact cause; many have seen effects of the bug in various forms, but it sounds like you nailed it down.
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That would explain some of the problems the GotM people had with some of their early conquest based GotMs. As long as you know it is out there, it can be dealt with.
September 16th, 2004, 06:55
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Just 2 little questions.
Are the tech costs and the OCN only changed in maps which aren't "standard-sized" (ie. Tiny, Small, Standard, Large, Huge) or even in custom-made maps which are "standard-sized" ? In other words, if I made my own map but using a Large map size, will there be this mess ? Or does the map have to be 87x106 ?
Also, for the 9 conquests (and the 3 warmup scenarios), what's the best plan to play them (I haven't so far) ? Play a "standard-sized" game before, with the size corresponding the best to the conquest ? Or tweak figures inside the editor ? I assume we can't get the exact values for each map, am I right ?
September 16th, 2004, 07:45
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Quote:Originally posted by kryszcztov@Sep 16 2004, 06:46 AM
Just 2 little questions.
Are the tech costs and the OCN only changed in maps which aren't "standard-sized" (ie. Tiny, Small, Standard, Large, Huge) or even in custom-made maps which are "standard-sized" ? In other words, if I made my own map but using a Large map size, will there be this mess ? Or does the map have to be 87x106 ?
Also, for the 9 conquests (and the 3 warmup scenarios), what's the best plan to play them (I haven't so far) ? Play a "standard-sized" game before, with the size corresponding the best to the conquest ? Or tweak figures inside the editor ? I assume we can't get the exact values for each map, am I right ?
It appears to be all custom maps, whether they match a current 'standard' size or not. So if you make up your own 100x100 map, it would still read in the settings from the most recently played random game.
We have since found that in addition to OCN and Tech settings, the Barbarian settings also carry over, regardless of scenario properties. So if you want Raging barbs, but your last game played was Sedentary, you'll be stuck with Sedentary.
There are two solutions, either load up a random game just prior, with the most appropriate settings for the map you want to play, and then load your custom map, OR you can edit the CONQUESTS.INI file if you know the codes for the settings you want, but of course, your next random game will change the .INI settings again. Another solution for scenarios is to, in the editor, set all 5 world size settings (Tiny, Small, etc) to equal the same OCN and Tech Rate, so no matter what size world it thinks it is, they all have the same settings. (i.e. if you want an OCN of 24, and a Tech Rate of 320, change all 5 sizes to have those settings). That does not address the Barbarian issue, though.
As for the packaged Conquests, what I have done in my recent games is generate a new 'random' game just prior, with the settings for the map I think are most appropriate for that Conquest. If you look at the Conquests before loading them, the info screen will tell you the size of the map in tiles (80x100 or whatever) and you can make your best guess. Or you can look at it in the editor, and scroll to the lower right corner, to see the grid coordinates of the last tile. I've tended to 'round up', going for a larger size than the actual conquest, as the Conquest maps tend to have far more land area than a normal map of the same dimensions, and so play more like the bigger map. For example, Rise of Rome is 140x140 (139x139 actually), but I'm playing one now after having loaded a Huge map, because the RoR map has more land area than even a Huge random map.
NOTE: If you change any settings for the Conquest scenarios in the editor, the program will no longer recognize it as the 'official' Conquest, and will not allow the score to register for the Hall of Fame or your 'checklist' of Conquests.
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Quote:Originally posted by Griselda@Oct 8 2004, 01:24 PM
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