Epic 11 by T-hawk

[T-hawk]

Here we go:

http://www.dos486.com/civ4/epic11/

[Sullla]

Hey, great stuff as usual T-Hawk. You're going to laugh when you read my report and see the comment about how the Great Lighthouse was designed to be impossible to build. Never underestimate the community, eh?

What was interesting was seeing how the placement of that first city on the coast oriented your civ towards the east; this was then confirmed with the later war against Rome. I largely built south first, followed by expansion north and west. You'll have to compare maps later when I post my report and see what you make of it. Your third city (Toronto) was identical in location to my third city, incidentally. I expect it will be a popular spot.

The biggest difference between your game and mine is that you focused on scoring the maximum scenario points (understandable!) while I concentrated on winning as fast as possible, since I was ineligible for scoring. As such, for once I actually ended up with a stronger cultural performance than you, which rarely happens! I understand that maximizing culture wasn't your top priority, naturally... and you outscored me in scenario points by a fair margin. I also built Sistine in my game, which probably accounts for most of the difference in date.

Now here's where you're really going to hate me. Unfortunately, you broke one of the variant rules for this game:

I gifted a pile of obsolete units to serve as a flip garrison, then canceled the Open Borders to trap them in the city.

Gifting units was not allowed for this game; I had in mind players giving units to overmatched civs to defend their cities, but this also falls under the rule. And it quite possibly did make a difference in that Egyptian city flipping to you. Sorry about that, not much I can say to make things better.

I did enjoy the report enormously, especially the building of the early wonders. A bold gamble that paid off indeed.

[BWardly]

My hat's off to you T-Hawk, for going after those scenario points. I didn't have the courage to go for the Lighthouse and the other less-helpful but point giving wonders (although the Itza probably would have helped me more than I suspected)...plus I didn't even FIND the damn coast until all of that territory was gobbled up.

I groaned out loud when I read the unit transfer part of your report - so awful to miss a technicality like that! I'm sorry. Another hidden bonus to bureaucracy!

But excellent job - to combine making a grab for those wonders, manage your relations well, and cruise to a relatively early victory...very skillful (my report is a good instruction manual on how NOT to balance out those various objectives).

[sooooo]

I also groaned, because it was a very well played game, T-Hawk. Unfortunately, I think your troop gift didn't achieve anything either .

And it quite possibly did make a difference in that Egyptian city flipping to you.

I don't think it did, because as T-Hawk said in his report, cities do not flip back to their previous owner. Revolts can happen continuously, but the city will not flip.

[sunrise089]

Wow - Great Lighthouse, amazing!

I certainly thought that was simply a cruel joke on Sullla's part. Looks like I was wrong.

[haphazard1]

Impressive game, T-hawk! Technicality aside, this is quite the example of playing to the scenario and grabbing just about every point imaginable. I did not even consider going for the Great Lighthouse -- I figured Sulla was just teasing us with that one.

I see several strategies in your report which I did not consider in my game. This was the first time I've played for a cultural victory, and I definitely did not go about it as effectively as I might have. Opportunities to learn from stronger players is one of the things I enjoy most about Realms Beyond, so thanks for the lesson.

[Michelangelo]

Great game and report.

You're approach on not getting a religion yourself early on was something I concluded in my game only later on when I spread the religion in all of my cities. Also early culture doesn't mean much when you get 600+ culture/turn in the end. I'll have to reread your report several times though to understand where and how you the important things different from me.

I have to backup Sooooo on that the unit gifting did not contribute to much especially b/c you closed of the borders, so they never participated in the war. And the city would never have flipped to you, just revolted endlessly. On the other hand, rules are there for a reason. This doens't take away anything from you gameresult here though.

[Galileo44]

Also, for flip prevention, the game doesn't care whose units they are. You could have kept OB and just left your units in the city and it never would have flipped.

Great game though!

[T-hawk]

Hey, great stuff as usual T-Hawk. You're going to laugh when you read my report and see the comment about how the Great Lighthouse was designed to be impossible to build. Never underestimate the community, eh?

Oh, I knew it was supposed to be a red herring, and I also knew that you hadn't thought it through. I tried it before. Three factors torpedoed the plan in Civ 3: corruption, the cascade, and coastal placement of many AI capitals. The former two are gone now, and this scenario had only two AI capitals on the coast. Also the Civ 4 Great Lighthouse comes several techs later than the Civ 3 Colossus, and has the regular lighthouse prereq. So I knew it was possible as soon as I saw the coast.

I was also inspired by Urugharakh's Epic Fourteen game, when he landed a whole pile of wonders that were supposed to be red herrings.

Your third city (Toronto) was identical in location to my third city, incidentally. I expect it will be a popular spot.

Nod - it was clearly the strongest location anywhere in the first ring from the capital, with two food resources, gold, and lots of grassland.

As such, for once I actually ended up with a stronger cultural performance than you, which rarely happens!

Yep. This game was more a demonstration of how to back into a cultural victory after pointing a civilization at other goals for the first half of the game.

Turning on Aggressive AIs was also a no-brainer. I also needed the game to be on Epic speed - to give the AI civs more time to kill each other! Yes, T-Hawk, there WAS a reason for doing this

Yeah, I twigged to that when I saw it playing out. That one you did think through.

I don't think it did, because as T-Hawk said in his report, cities do not flip back to their previous owner. Revolts can happen continuously, but the city will not flip.

Is that the rule? Revolts can still happen even though it won't flip? When I saw the revolt, I thought the rule of "no flips to a previous owner" had an exception for a gifted city (since I'd already seen that a gifted city has rules exceptions regarding cultural control of its nearby tiles.)

Also, for flip prevention, the game doesn't care whose units they are. You could have kept OB and just left your units in the city and it never would have flipped.

This game has too dang many rules.

[T-hawk]

Great game and report.

You're approach on not getting a religion yourself early on was something I concluded in my game only later on when I spread the religion in all of my cities. Also early culture doesn't mean much when you get 600+ culture/turn in the end. I'll have to reread your report several times though to understand where and how you the important things different from me.

Right. For a cultural game, you need access to religions, but you don't need to found them yourself. Founding an early religion carries three salient benefits: raising the happy cap, shrine cash, and city visibility. On Prince difficulty with gold nearby, the happy cap was already lenient. On Prince with plenty of tech trading partners and the Organized trait, shrine cash was minor. And if you're not going conquering, the visibility doesn't much matter.

For other cultural games, you can see my Adventure 10, Adventure 11, and Epic 9 shadow replay.