May 12th, 2008, 17:17
(This post was last modified: May 14th, 2008, 09:57 by T-hawk.)
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Got the report done...
http://www.dos486.com/civ4/adv29/
Summary - Cultural Victory in 1880 AD. Went for the Great Wall and then turtled the whole way.
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Nicely done.
Just a quick comment, you don't need to be the AP resident to have the (hammer) bonus, just be a full member is enough (have the AP state religion).
Now that I am typing it, I think you don't even need that...
Jabah
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Quote:And a barb archer appeared in my territory - on my river wheat - as soon as turn 29, just as I trained my first archer.
You may have been a little lucky here -- I had a pair of barb archers enter my BFC on turn 23 ... significantly earlier than I had expected them.
Quote:Lincoln is Industrious though
Lincoln is Charismatic/Philosophical ![tongue tongue](https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/images/smilies/RBOld/tongue.gif) He does seem to like his shiny wonders, however.
Quote:I'm not quite sure how they can want to join the Greek Empire when we don't even know they exist yet?
Several of the BtS events have this sort of spoiler information, since it would presumably be easy to fix its another reason I'm surprised we havn't seen a Firaxis patch.
Quote:This is Victoria's stack of doom. It's still three tiles away from my city, so I've got time to prepare.
She did some marching to get to your borders ![lol lol](https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif) Very nice scrambling.
Quote:In time, Mass Media arrived, and of course I founded Civilized Jewelers. This corp would be the star of the late game show.
Impressive -- all those gem mines really add up, good call
Quote:(I'm starting to see what Sulla means with his complaints that Alexman liked making changes to the game code and elements without thinking them through. The original Civ 4 GNP graph was misleading, because it only counted commerce and omitted specialists and all multiplier buildings and shrines. The new GNP graph includes all that, but includes too much in culture and espionage as well, which have no economic value. So we still have no true comparison of economic power between civilizations.)
Its funny -- we're so close to having something meaningful (just exclude espionage + culture, which already have their own graphs). Just one more patch Firaxis
Quote:I'm having a hard time seeing any situation (besides variant rule) to go for the longer slower space race rather than the easy cultural exit...?
I'm not so sure -- getting Sistine is a big bifurcation point. Also State Property is a very attractive late game civic (especially for multiple landmasses), meaning corporations are potentially unusable. Still I agree that cultural is a much more viable option that it used to be.
Thanks for the very fun read
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An enjoyable read, I hope you had fun. Two quick comments:
T-Hawk Wrote:By the way, a curious feature of Sulla's savegames - both the warrior and settler seem to be fortified, requiring an actively issued wake-up command to move on the first turn. I also noticed this in the Sid's Sushi game, where the executive started fortified. I was wondering when someone would finally notice this. ![smile smile](https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/images/smilies/smile2.gif) The units are fortified because in order to access debug mode, you have to type in "chipotle", the access keyword. The problem is that the "E" key activates explorer mode, so if any units are selected when typing, they go off exploring on their own. I suppose I could end their turns and then re-activate them, but it's just less hassel for me to fortify both units right away and then make whatever map edits I need to do without worrying about it.
And regarding the comments about cultural victory at the end - oh, absolutely. The cultural victory is vastly, vastly easier in Beyond the Sword than it used to be (that was a nice summation of the reasons why, btw). Since the spaceship victory takes so damned long, I'm not sure why anyone would bother when 3/4 of the time you can win faster and with less work by culture. (This is yet another example of Alex mucking around with game elements without really understanding the effects they would cause.)
One thing that I'll consider doing is cutting out the cultural victory condition from more of our games. I don't want to do that too much (since it's a nice way to eliminate tedium in a game that's already won), but I think it would benefit some scenarios.
Any chance we'll see a T-Hawk designed scenario for BTS? I'm sure you could come up with something interesting.
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Finally got a spare few minutes to look at the report
Nice contrast with my pre-BtS Wonders & SE approach, compared to your CE and CorpCulture strategy. Our expansion phases played out very differently with Lincoln shooting out a (doomed) finger into your backyard. We both enjoyed our fair share of luck in war, though...
EDIT: pics added to my report, btw.
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Olodune Wrote:Lincoln is Charismatic/Philosophical He does seem to like his shiny wonders, however.
Lincoln was Industrious in Civ 3.
Quote:I'm not so sure -- getting Sistine is a big bifurcation point. Also State Property is a very attractive late game civic (especially for multiple landmasses), meaning corporations are potentially unusable. Still I agree that cultural is a much more viable option that it used to be.
Sistine is only part of the picture - I somewhat overestimated its impact. After monasteries expire, it's +10 culture from temple and cathedral and about another +10 from specialists. 20 culture per turn helps and is always worth pursuing for a cultural win, but it's maybe 10% of a late game city's production once the slider is up or the culture corps are added.
State Property may work well for large empires, but the convenience of the cultural victory is that it works just fine with as few as six cities, and even with a substantial power and tech deficit. If you're big enough to need State Property, you may as well cut to domination instead.
Sullla Wrote:Any chance we'll see a T-Hawk designed scenario for BTS? I'm sure you could come up with something interesting. ![nod nod](https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/images/smilies/nod.gif)
I've been thinking, but I haven't got anything nearly as elegant or compelling as Simple Life, the Sid's Sushi game, or even Dutch Masters... :zzz:
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Oracle into monarchy was a very clever idea. You used Stalin's industrial trait much wiser than I did, especially building that big stone thing to keep those barbarians out.
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Interesting read, especially with some of the similarities in our games.
Quote:So I had slammed my espionage entirely to Lincoln, and trained a couple spies.
After settling my Spy I never did anything specific except try to stay ahead of everyone in espionage - I liked the idea of using him to steal a tech from Lincoln.
Quote:This is even true for the AIs as well, which can sometimes beat a player's space attempt with a cultural win.
Certainly something I can attest to. I didn't ever really consider a cultural win - especially considering my late game lack of aluminum/space elevator, it seems cultural was indeed the far better choice.
Unrelatedly, after not seeing any images when I first went to the report (a problem I've encountered before in viewing reports hosted on their own websites), I've discovered the cause. Apparently, firefox's adblock extension feels that these images are somehow worth blocking - a behavior I've discouraged.
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