FFH PBEM XVI Map Thread [Spoilers]

[Ichabod]

This is the map thread for the making of the requested new map for FFH PBEM XVI (ex-FFH PBEM XVb). It'll use the EitB mod!

[Ichabod]

So, I need ideas for the map.

My prefered map type is a pangea like map. Maybe I can place a lot of islands reached by coastal navigation, to power up the Lanun (albeit every other player can settle them too). But I like the idea of one big continent that make interaction between all the players possible.

I think i'll go with a Large map, even though it's a 5 player map. They wanted more space, so i'll give them. I like the idea of Toroidal maps, since they make for potential interactions between all the civs, but i'm afraid the maintenance will be too high. What do you guys think? Is it possible for a good builder game to have a toroidal large map? One with a central continent and some islands thrown into the mix?

BTW, DaveV, I'm interested in that script you proposed, but is it possible to garrison the lairs with a less powerful creature? I could add the units manually too. How about garrisoning the lairs/dungeons in the main continent and leaving the ones on the islands free?

Do you guys think i'm going in the right direction or should i rethink all the concept?

[DaveV]

BTW, DaveV, I'm interested in that script you proposed, but is it possible to garrison the lairs with a less powerful creature?

Not really a script, but a program that chugs through the worldbuilder file and adds the garrison unit (and removes scorpion clan archers). It's very easy to change the garrison unit, and give it any arbitrary promotions. I picked Hill Giants because they're not outrageously strong, and won't switch teams because of the Clan world spell or the Subdue Animal promotion.

I can mail you an installer for the program, or you could just mail me the worldbuilder file and I can run the program. Or you can add them by hand, as you said, although that could be pretty tedious on a big map.

******

Commentary on the map: I'd recommend putting some chokepoints between the players, maybe a 1-tile mountain pass or peninsula with a garrisoned lair blocking it. The original goal was a builder game, so I think you should do everything you can to encourage that. It's a cliche, but a doughnut map with water or mountain barriers might be interesting. Or, as you were suggesting, a toroidal pangea map.

[Ichabod]

Not really a script, but a program that chugs through the worldbuilder file and adds the garrison unit (and removes scorpion clan archers). It's very easy to change the garrison unit, and give it any arbitrary promotions. I picked Hill Giants because they're not outrageously strong, and won't switch teams because of the Clan world spell or the Subdue Animal promotion.

I can mail you an installer for the program, or you could just mail me the worldbuilder file and I can run the program. Or you can add them by hand, as you said, although that could be pretty tedious on a big map.

******

Commentary on the map: I'd recommend putting some chokepoints between the players, maybe a 1-tile mountain pass or peninsula with a garrisoned lair blocking it. The original goal was a builder game, so I think you should do everything you can to encourage that. It's a cliche, but a doughnut map with water or mountain barriers might be interesting. Or, as you were suggesting, a toroidal pangea map.

If you can send the program for me, that would be nice.

Here's my latest planned map:

A toroidal, large donut map. The donut will have a big island inside and a lot of small/medium islands on the outside (the outside islands have unguarded dungeons and maybe some of the mana unique features). There will be a small connection between the donut and the inside island, which will be guarded by a hill giant or something. There's also going to be just a choke point pass between each of the players part of the donut, also guarded.

This way I think we'll have a builder game with a lot of possible attack paths for the late game. You can go through the land donut, through the inside island, trough the inside sea, through the outside sea. And the toroidal setting will make the players able to reach each other.

I'm assuming OO is banned, since this was the desired setting for bob's map.

[DaveV]

If you can send the program for me, that would be nice.

Can do. Did you decide on unit and promotions for the garrison unit? Do you want graveyards garrisoned? Epic lairs? Right now the program does garrison graveyards and epic lairs on land tiles.

Here's my latest planned map:

A toroidal, large donut map. The donut will have a big island inside and a lot of small/medium islands on the outside (the outside islands have unguarded dungeons and maybe some of the mana unique features). There will be a small connection between the donut and the inside island, which will be guarded by a hill giant or something. There's also going to be just a choke point pass between each of the players part of the donut, also guarded.

This way I think we'll have a builder game with a lot of possible attack paths for the late game. You can go through the land donut, through the inside island, trough the inside sea, through the outside sea. And the toroidal setting will make the players able to reach each other.

I'm assuming OO is banned, since this was the desired setting for bob's map.

Sounds good! Can be subverted by captured griffons, but I don't see how you can do anything about that.

[Ichabod]

So, I've finished the most basic part of the map. The donut with the division made with peaks. I need people to confirm if the land quantity is balanced for each player (the quality will be balanced later).

My formula to make the divisions was counting the number of tiles from the inside and outside part of the donut. I divided it by 5 and used this numbers to place the divisions in the inside and outside part. Then I made a connection of peaks between the 2 divisions. Hopefully it worked out ok. I made a guess by eye and it seems balanced enough, but I want confirmation.

Here's the file:

WBSave format:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21249278/FFH%20P...wordWBSave

RAR format:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21249278/FFH%20P...%ADcio.rar

[DaveV]

With a few changes, I was able to run the map through novice's map balancing tool. Your original map had Sheaim and Lanun sharing the same slice, as well as Bannor and Ljosalfar.

Uranium = mana
Coal = gunpowder
Stone = cotton
Silver = mithril
Oil = pearls
Spices=Reagents

Player 0Capria of Bannor331 land tiles.(298 grass, 33 plains, 0 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 145 forests, 14 jungles, 0 flood plains, 0 oasis. 58 hills.)1141 total food potential.2.83 food per non-ocean tile.373 total hammer potential.0.93 hammers per non-ocean tile.72 coastal tiles.410 ocean tiles.6 strategic resources (2 oil, 1 horse, 1 iron, 1 uranium, 1 coal).7 happy resources (1 spices, 2 gold, 1 sugar, 3 silk).26 food resources (3 fish, 1 banana, 6 corn, 1 crab, 3 pig, 3 cow, 3 rice, 3 sheep, 1 sugar, 2 clam).27 health resources (3 fish, 1 banana, 6 corn, 1 crab, 3 pig, 1 spices, 3 cow, 3 rice, 3 sheep, 1 sugar, 2 clam).

[SIZE=1]

Player 1Os-gabella of Sheaim312 land tiles.(274 grass, 38 plains, 0 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 95 forests, 64 jungles, 0 flood plains, 0 oasis. 44 hills.)953 total food potential.2.54 food per non-ocean tile.299 total hammer potential.0.80 hammers per non-ocean tile.63 coastal tiles.269 ocean tiles.10 strategic resources (1 ivory, 1 copper, 2 uranium, 1 marble, 1 coal, 3 oil, 1 horse).8 happy resources (1 ivory, 1 gold, 2 dye, 2 silk, 1 incense, 1 gems).24 food resources (4 fish, 4 rice, 3 pig, 2 banana, 4 cow, 4 corn, 1 crab, 2 clam).24 health resources (4 fish, 4 rice, 3 pig, 2 banana, 4 cow, 4 corn, 1 crab, 2 clam).

[/SIZE][SIZE=1]

Player 2Arendel of Ljosalfar332 land tiles.(297 grass, 35 plains, 0 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 144 forests, 0 jungles, 0 flood plains, 0 oasis. 38 hills.)1128 total food potential.2.84 food per non-ocean tile.330 total hammer potential.0.83 hammers per non-ocean tile.65 coastal tiles.405 ocean tiles.13 strategic resources (2 horse, 1 copper, 3 oil, 4 stone, 1 marble, 2 uranium).3 happy resources (1 incense, 2 silver).18 food resources (4 pig, 3 fish, 4 sheep, 5 corn, 1 crab, 1 clam).18 health resources (4 pig, 3 fish, 4 sheep, 5 corn, 1 crab, 1 clam).

[/SIZE][SIZE=1]

Player 3Valledia of Amurites331 land tiles.(287 grass, 44 plains, 0 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 119 forests, 0 jungles, 0 flood plains, 0 oasis. 37 hills.)1109 total food potential.2.77 food per non-ocean tile.320 total hammer potential.0.80 hammers per non-ocean tile.69 coastal tiles.403 ocean tiles.11 strategic resources (3 uranium, 4 oil, 2 copper, 1 horse, 1 iron).6 happy resources (1 whale, 3 wine, 1 incense, 1 spices).19 food resources (1 whale, 6 cow, 3 corn, 3 sheep, 2 rice, 3 fish, 1 crab).22 health resources (6 cow, 3 corn, 3 wine, 3 sheep, 2 rice, 3 fish, 1 spices, 1 crab).

[/SIZE][SIZE=1]

Player 4Falamar of Purple352 land tiles.(320 grass, 32 plains, 0 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 149 forests, 30 jungles, 0 flood plains, 0 oasis. 41 hills.)1193 total food potential.2.82 food per non-ocean tile.336 total hammer potential.0.79 hammers per non-ocean tile.71 coastal tiles.427 ocean tiles.7 strategic resources (1 iron, 2 oil, 2 uranium, 1 copper, 1 stone).7 happy resources (2 sugar, 2 dye, 1 spices, 1 silk, 1 gems).23 food resources (5 cow, 6 corn, 2 sugar, 1 pig, 1 fish, 2 rice, 1 wheat, 4 sheep, 1 banana).24 health resources (5 cow, 6 corn, 2 sugar, 1 pig, 1 fish, 2 rice, 1 wheat, 4 sheep, 1 spices, 1 banana).

[/SIZE]

[Ichabod]

With a few changes, I was able to run the map through novice's map balancing tool. Your original map had Sheaim and Lanun sharing the same slice, as well as Bannor and Ljosalfar.

WOW! Thanks a lot, Dave!

Yeah, I hadn't moved the initial units when I posted it.

Guess I need to take some land from the Lanun and give it to the Sheaim. I'm actually surprised that my method worked that well, though.

Next step is creating the islands (internal and external) and placing the resources. I decided to go with a no lairs setup, but I'm going to place some dungeons manually (better to avoid placing graveyards, since they have a big chance of popping expensive techs), which will be defended. The stretches of land connecting the inner island will have preplaced barb cities that make a canal between the two sides.

[novice]

With a few changes, I was able to run the map through novice's map balancing tool.

Wow, I didn't realize you could make it work with so few changes. Maybe I should add actual FFH support some day... Feels silly making people hack their worldbuilder files.

[Ichabod]

Questions to the lurkers:

1. Should I make every capital coastal or give Lanun a coastal capital (outside sea) and everyone else gets an inland capital? If the second scenario is best, I'm considering a mostly land based capital for the Lanun too, it'd probably have 3/4 coastal tiles and 1 lake, with space for 2 coves and a fish.

2. Strategic Resources! I think everyone will get copper and horses. I'll probably add some raw mana nodes too. But what about the others (iron, mythril, gunpowder)? Make them only avaiable at the outer and inner islands? Or is it better to give them to everybody?

I like the idea of making the more advanced resources scarcely avaiable. Unlike BTS, you can still build most units without resources. The resources act more like power ups then anything else.

Ah, but I need to give people iron so that they can build frigates. They want a naval map, so everyone needs to have acess to Iron. Gunpowder is also important, since you need it to build arquebus and cannons.

So I guess I'll only make Mythril very rare. Only one source in the central island doesn't sound like a good idea... Would it be too cruel? What do you guys think?