[no players] The High Medievals...map and lurking thread.

[Commodore]

Hah, here is where you discuss how badly they're doing. Silly players, you're missing the point...go rush for Military Science you fools!

[Commodore]

Okay, here's draft one of the map. The general concept is for something sort of like a doughnut, wheel, and Pangaea blob all mixed in together. I'm not sold on the start locations, but here's what they have now:

STARTS:


This land might be too fertile, although I feel like it averages out in general with the non-optimal plains and the good food specials. Horses and copper can be moved, but I see less reason to really shift them from near the start.


BORDERS:



Now here's the dryness. I balanced the good but worker-intensive jungle half with the poor long-term but easy setup plains area. Obviously each player will butt heads with the others over the critical mountain range defenses. Should be close enough for attacks but not a cakewalk to rush over. On the outer island, spices or wines give a little boost for taking the place over.

MIDDLE SEA:


This is the place that I'm debating over the most. I like the openness, and the terrain variance that this water provides, but it might make everyone a little too vulnerable to Sirian in the core. I can make the still navigable but wall off the players by hooking up the center island to the corners.

OVER-OCEAN GOODIES:




I love the look of these places, and they are very heavily laden with resources and general good land. Not sure if they will ever get settled, but Portugal or someone who makes a point at settling these places will be in a real advantaged position, maybe even enough to remain relevant if their cores are pillaged.

Thoughts?

[Ceiliazul]

I'll look more particulars later, but broad strokes feedback:

-too many luxes. Shouldn't be enough for everyone to get everything. Maybe delete one of each copy from the large islands?

-I like the mix of dry & jungle

-I don't like the corner island... just seems like a gimmick. What's up with Mariana Trenches?

-I LOVE the fingers of land toward the inner sea. Tons of tactical possibilities.

-Love the Marble/Stone distribution, but those sites are way too rich. I'd like to see the wonder resources require a sacrifice to grab. As it is, those sites are strategic/wonder/productivity supersites.

[Commodore]

Oh, does anyone know how to swap this map to medieval? I rolled it ancient without really thinking. Surely there is some notepad hackery to swap it in, but...ah, where?

[Ceiliazul]

Oh, does anyone know how to swap this map to medieval? I rolled it ancient without really thinking. Surely there is some notepad hackery to swap it in, but...ah, where?

It's right near the top of the world builder file, but I can't open one to quote the syntax. If you roll a new Medievel start you can grab the verbiage from that file?

[Commodore]

It's right near the top of the world builder file, but I can't open one to quote the syntax. If you roll a new Medievel start you can grab the verbiage from that file?

Yeah, I guess I'll roll one and just go a'hunting in the file...once these laggards make all their picks. My mind is blown that Financial is available and everyone seems to be ignoring it, by the way.

-I don't like the corner island... just seems like a gimmick. What's up with Mariana Trenches?

How is it a gimmick? The two copies off, or what? The trenches are artifacts of placing then removing land, this is all handcrafted and I ran some lines to mark my way.

I removed the doubled gems and silks, now just one per continent.

-Love the Marble/Stone distribution, but those sites are way too rich. I'd like to see the wonder resources require a sacrifice to grab. As it is, those sites are strategic/wonder/productivity supersites.

Yeah, I'd like for them to be reaches too, but I'm already at a map that's huge for just four people, too. Any suggested other spots to place them? I don't want to weaken the dry plains areas too much.

[Ceiliazul]

Yeah, I'd like for them to be reaches too, but I'm already at a map that's huge for just four people, too. Any suggested other spots to place them? I don't want to weaken the dry plains areas too much.

Wild brainstorm: could you put the doublers along th tendrils of the inner sea, in places that have 1 food resource max?

Alternatively, put them on small islands near the trench lines, again with less food available? That would make the islands good just for IC routes, but less accessible in the vital early game.

Just a brainstorm.

[Serdoa]

I'd be careful with Stone and Marble. I think I remember something that Stone is much more valuable at a later era start. But apart from that I don't think they need to be moved as they are in the middle of the civs. It's just that with one side jungle, people probably are more prone to expand in the other direction first which - due to the different resource on the non-jungle side might be unbalanced.

Also Gandhi and Victoria don't have the copper in their BFC if they settle in place, the other two do. Speaking of the BFCs, the crabs can't be improved till a second city is settled. Together with the really, really bad land (imo) the capital is utter crap. You'll work the Wheat, 2 PH and then you can work 3x 2/0/2 tiles. Growth will be extremely slow. At the same time, if someone just gets lucky, he can settle on the outer coast, getting (on some starts) PH copper, improvable crabs, 2 floodplains, wet wheat. Thats already 5 good tiles, just by a lucky move - or are you going to show them some of their surroundings from the get-go?

How are they meant to research? It seems for me this land can maybe be utilized using Caste / Pacifism and bulbs. But that strenghtens only the already strong Spi leaders.

Last: Is that much jungle really needed? It seems for me that it simply means everyone needs more workforce, making the start even slower. Maybe thats offset because it is a later era start, but still for me it seems awfully slow and tedious to get going. And I think the idea about a later era start is to offset exactly that issue with an Ancient start, isn't it?

[Commodore]

Okay, changed some stuff based on comments, tell me what you all think now. Yes, I know it's still ancient, not medieval. I figure I'll swap that once I have all the picks in anyway.

THE COLD ISLAND:


Now a little less cold? If someone wants to claim this place it's a nice little bonus, but honestly I doubt it'll matter much at all. Just because hey, otherwise it gets pretty empty up there, don't want to screw the guy who explored along the diagonals.

THE SPICEWINE SANDBARS:


Now a good deal weaker, and harder to parse, to boot. Only one copy of each resource per island, makes things a little more dicey.

THE CENTER:


Now with crappy "islands" of marble or stone, that don't even give IC TRs. It's a bit more of a sacrifice, snagging these places. Not sure what is OP or not in medieval, but I'd think with the Great Library and Taj around marble doesn't suffer too much vs. stone.

THE IN-BETWEEN:


Less mono-cultural vegetation, a good deal less jungle in general, and the gold pigs weakened a bit. Makes it a good deal less of an unnatural shock, and hopefully makes expanding in either direction nice.

THE STARTS:


Now populated. If someone SIP with either settler, they are daft, daft fellows smokin da ganja. Despite how the starts look, there are actually fine cottage-spam options available (although as every one of them is avoiding Fin for some retarded reason...) The right settler moves 1S, he actually has the food to work every single plains tile in his BFC as a cottage, should he so choose.

Also, so that they know there are outer areas worth going, I uncovered a tiny glimpse of the nearest grassy shore for each of them.



I call it their "homelands"

[Commodore]

Alright, guys, last chance for commentary. Baring anything major I'll be rolling the starts for Justinian/Vikings, Gandhi/Spain, Elizabeth/Ottoman, and Victoria/England soon. I'm particularly wondering about the vulnerability of the capitals from inner sea landings.