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[Spoilers] Fintourist and Old Harry have nothing to see here

(October 15th, 2013, 18:09)Old Harry Wrote: Nice spot on the worker steal, I agree - shock axe + bow on flatland is good. What promos do we want on our bowmen? Combat I on them all? Actually, he can only road one tile - the pasture or W of the city this turn, so if we just put a bow there he can't get the workers and we could have an empty city to walk into...

Putting one C1 bowman onto that tile is probably fine. There is an almost non-existant chance that suttree has roaded the tile NE of Seville and there's a 2nd unit, which then could clear our defender on the flatland and the axe in the city then kills our 2 workers or our settler + warrior pair. But yeah, that's really really unlikely. smoke Or maybe he has traded horses at some point and has a chariot there? crazyeye Well... I'm fine by anything as long as you put one unit W of Seville (C1 Axe or C1 Bowman).

I don't think we want to promote the bowmen that go to the jungle tile yet. That 50 % tile bonus is more than enough. If suttree attacks out it's just great for us anyways and we could try to encourage that.

Quote:If we offer Suttree peace for the city it gives us ten turns to consolidate, but if we don't we could lose units, gain XP and (if he builds the road) gain some free workers.

Yeah, let's offer it. Unless suttree tilts he will surely retreat those workers. Or am I missing something?

Quote:More thoughts about the island - if Ichabod's work boat got to us he either has some cities on the island, declared to get through someone else's culture or the island is empty. Do we need the galley for anything? I'd like to send it south to circumnavigate the island.

Well, at some point that is fairly soon we probably want a 3rd city on that island or onto the desert hill in the north, or at the penisula near dtay. But maybe we get a 2nd galley out for that. Meanwhile I think your suggestion for scouting direction is thumbsup

EDIT: Promoting axe to shock is fine by me if you want!
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
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Turn 92 part 2

Yossarian continues to explore and spots dtays damaged shock chariot - busy cleaning up axes? I think he should move SE over the next few turns, then we can decide to go NE again or uncover the land around the river valley.


In BoP we could build a scouting work boat to go north, or put some hammers into a lighthouse, but I'd probably go for the spear for now. I'm not fussed though, so happy to change. In France we don't have to whip straight away so a bowman isn't vital - we could build a spear or an axe. I'd like to get the axe with the aim of him getting to be a woodsman III medic eventually.

Led by the mighty TheHumanHydra, Oxy and Celiazul are poised in the jungle, ready to strike. Meanwhile TheStick seems to have drunkenly charged out into the middle of nowhere and he's just shouting abuse. Hopefully Suttree takes the 64% shot and we raze an undefended city... If not THH has a coinflip or one of the bowmen gets 22% against the fully fortified axe. If there was a road NE or E of Seville would it show up on the city graphic?


I'm not sure about the peace treaty - I thought about asking for his map too, but I already think he'll reject it and that could be thought of as insulting... So in the end I sent this.


The settler and warrior are on the hill now, and everything else progressed as planned. We need to work out what we're doing with the workers east of Endor now though...


Power


Demos


Edit: Ended turn, even though we might change builds in BoP and France in the morning, as they don't affect the Suttree war.
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(October 15th, 2013, 17:51)Old Harry Wrote: Lunch reveals another river - I think he'll move to the tile the spear is on next turn, although he could hug the coast or just move 1S.

That island is way bigger than I thought! I guess just going 1S is solid, although because that barb spear has also spawn-busted other barbs, going S-S should be fairly safe too. (assuming we win)

Quote:I want to move the bowman in France out to the SW next turn to scout since we'll soon have another (whip on t94 regrows straight away, then start a worker?)

Another option is to wait a bit with the bowman, let France grow to size 4 while building bowman/axe, then double-whip a worker and then complete the military build supported by overflow. Those jungles require a lot of worker turns so I think we should at least consider this. Getting new riverside cottages up earlier has value. Of course everything assumes that settling that city will be safe and our bowman wins the fight agains the spear etc.

Hmm.. maybe we want to remain a bit conservative with that bowman until we know that City I can also whip a 2nd defender in time if required?

(October 15th, 2013, 18:57)Old Harry Wrote: In BoP we could build a scouting work boat to go north, or put some hammers into a lighthouse, but I'd probably go for the spear for now. I'm not fussed though, so happy to change. In France we don't have to whip straight away so a bowman isn't vital - we could build a spear or an axe. I'd like to get the axe with the aim of him getting to be a woodsman III medic eventually.

I don't like the spear build in BoP that much. The city is pretty far away from our front lines and when looking at west I don't think that we need necessirarily spears as island defenders (might be wrong of course). I think I like WB or a 2nd galley more. Those will both be needed eventually.

In France I vote for an axe. See above the idea of prioritizing a worker though.

And finally, interesting times and a nice report! Maybe our lurkers are not totally bored to death this time! mischief The question is: Will suttree prefer a 64 % fight against a 25 hammer unit (+giving up the city) or 50-50 shot against our 35 hammer unit? Does he have still have some surprise resources that we are not yet aware of? In his position I would keep the axe in the city and hope for a really lucky first roll, which would make the attack very costly for us.

Let's not celebrate yet, but currently things are looking here as good as humanly possible. Two new cities (T93 & T94) + Currency + regrowing after whips will surely improve our demos as well. Let's keep working! thumbsup This has been a fun turn! (the reason why I'm still awake at 3.30 AM) crazyeye
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
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Sick, I'm a shock axe. I feel awesome!

This is exciting!
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(October 15th, 2013, 20:15)TheHumanHydra Wrote: Sick, I'm a shock axe. I feel awesome!

This is exciting!

Ha! The plan is to demoralise suttree by making him think the whole of rb is against him...

3.30 is good going! Sorry to hold it so late!
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(October 15th, 2013, 19:31)Fintourist Wrote:
(October 15th, 2013, 17:51)Old Harry Wrote: I want to move the bowman in France out to the SW next turn to scout since we'll soon have another (whip on t94 regrows straight away, then start a worker?)

Another option is to wait a bit with the bowman, let France grow to size 4 while building bowman/axe, then double-whip a worker and then complete the military build supported by overflow. Those jungles require a lot of worker turns so I think we should at least consider this. Getting new riverside cottages up earlier has value. Of course everything assumes that settling that city will be safe and our bowman wins the fight agains the spear etc.

Nice idea, I sim it out tonight.

(October 15th, 2013, 19:31)Fintourist Wrote:
(October 15th, 2013, 18:57)Old Harry Wrote: In BoP we could build a scouting work boat to go north, or put some hammers into a lighthouse, but I'd probably go for the spear for now. I'm not fussed though, so happy to change. In France we don't have to whip straight away so a bowman isn't vital - we could build a spear or an axe. I'd like to get the axe with the aim of him getting to be a woodsman III medic eventually.

I don't like the spear build in BoP that much. The city is pretty far away from our front lines and when looking at west I don't think that we need necessirarily spears as island defenders (might be wrong of course). I think I like WB or a 2nd galley more. Those will both be needed eventually.

I'm just a bit unhappy that we're building units in Cannae and not BoP with its barracks. Eventually I'd like to have a spear in place in the four corners of our empire (near Endor, in Hastings, between Cannae and Gallipoli and on the island) just because 2-movers are so much harder to react to than axes. I don't think BoP will finish this one before t103 (due to wealth builds), so it's not that premature. nod

After the bowman in Cannae we get 11 hammers production before it starts building Wealth, so we could start the second galley there?

(October 15th, 2013, 19:31)Fintourist Wrote: The question is: Will suttree prefer a 64 % fight against a 25 hammer unit (+giving up the city) or 50-50 shot against our 35 hammer unit? Does he have still have some surprise resources that we are not yet aware of? In his position I would keep the axe in the city and hope for a really lucky first roll, which would make the attack very costly for us.

If he sits tight I think we attack first with THH and clean up with bowmen, since the bowmen all get a hill and city defense bonus which we may need in Hastings if we upset Suttree enough... alright
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(October 15th, 2013, 18:57)Old Harry Wrote: I'm just a bit unhappy that we're building units in Cannae and not BoP with its barracks. Eventually I'd like to have a spear in place in the four corners of our empire (near Endor, in Hastings, between Cannae and Gallipoli and on the island) just because 2-movers are so much harder to react to than axes. I don't think BoP will finish this one before t103 (due to wealth builds), so it's not that premature. nod

After the bowman in Cannae we get 11 hammers production before it starts building Wealth, so we could start the second galley there?

Ok, I can live with that! crazyeye It's a bit about the principle how much do we want to gamble with our defenses in order to be economically stronger.

Quote:If he sits tight I think we attack first with THH and clean up with bowmen, since the bowmen all get a hill and city defense bonus which we may need in Hastings if we upset Suttree enough... alright

Yep! That is the right order. THH, do not let us down. You will probably get a chance to perform our first city raze and move within a touching distance from unlocking HE for us. We trust you!

About worker micro at Endor:

Here are my first thoughts:
- The worker that just finished the plains hill mine moves SW and puts 1 turn into a road. Next turn it moves S-SE onto Dyes. Then it roads the dyes and spends next turns chopping the jungle away from banana & dyes tiles
- The new worker that will be born in Endor moves first SE and finishes the road. Next turn it moves SW-SE-E-chop dyes. These two workers will together improve Bananas and Dyes when Calendar comes in. (Another option would be to move towards Cannae/BoP, but I believe that supporting Dunkirk is a better option first. In this case that road SE of Endor can be skipped and the first worker can put a turn into cottage instead)
(- I think we need both of those workers that did combat roading still in the east. They should first farm the tile where they are currently, next jobs include cottaging and roading towards City J. Once the city J is founded they will farm the corn and then rice)
- The worker on the grassland hill could start mining it, but I actually think that moving W-NW onto new forest and chopping it might be a better option. That chop can be put into another worker or maybe even into the settler for our 11th or 12th city.
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

Suttree played and I logged in to see what he did. Well, I'm a bit surprised..

[Image: PB%2013%20EOT920000.JPG]

Ok..
- Unsurprisingly he did not accept our peace offer mischief
- He roaded those horses and apparently deleted those 2 workers? huh
- He retreated his axe presumably S-SE and we can simply raze Seville next turn.
- He performed 3 whips, I think they are all double/triple-whips.

These actions give me a very bad feeling. It looks very much to me that suttree has given up the game and is only interested in revenge (deleting workers, but saving an axe, immediate whips..).. Can those whips be chariot dry-whips? He lost 3,3 and 2 points respectively (score went from 139 to 131). I'll calculate in a minute how many pop points where really whipped away.. He only got horses online this turn so if he is producing mounted units it can only happen via dry-whipping, right? And in RB-Mod you would need a triple-whip to produce over 30 hammers with dry-whip, right.

Well he can't produce anything that gets odds against our bowmen defending in a city on a hill, but we have to be extra careful regarding how we protect our workers and make sure that we have enough defenses.. At the same time I do not want to over-invest into units. That will lose us the game as well!

I'm also wondering whether we should try to pillage that pasture + road. That pasture does not bother me, but thanks to that road a mounted unti can attack us directly from the fog and one-movers can move next to our city in a similar fashion as we did.. We most definitely start with barracks in Hastings, but building time + 10 turns to pop borders is same as forever. I very much doubt that suttree will accept a peace offer, should we even bother? rolleye

Anyways, I guess we can congratulate ourselves for the successful attack that most definitely weakened our neighbor and got us the city plant we wanted. And it has not even cost a single unit so far. thumbsup Time tells..
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

Ok, a pop point is worth 1.45 score in this game so suttree just whipped 5-6 pop points away. Those should not be chariots, which makes securing our workers easier. However, after people notice that we raze a city from suttree and take a look at his low score, I would not be surprised if he would get horse gifts from other civs.

I want you to take a very careful look at our surroundings and think how you would organize a counter-attack if you were in suttree's position. After we hopefully settle City J, we will receive vision of that annoying and dangerous tile S-SE of Seville, which will help a lot. But even then we have to recognize the fact that suttree will have some attack lines, which fork our cities in quite an uncomfortable way.
Finished:
PBEM 45G, PB 13, PB 18, PB 38 & PB 49

Top 3 favorite turns: 
#1, #2, #3
Reply

That's not what I was expecting at all. Well meta-gamed sir! If an early attack on Suttree provokes a huge response people will be less likely to try in future...

Bad news - I think those 3-point whips are 2-pop, and I've just checked in the sandbox and you can 2-pop dry-whip a chariot (I think dry-whipping is 0.66 * as many hammers, so 2 pop give 33 hammers). So there are definitely two chariots coming at either us or YuriMack. My hope is that our bowmen make YuriMack a more likely target, but it isn't a strong hope.

The other whip is for 1 pop and most likely to be an axe.

So now would be an excellent time to whip that spear from Dunkirk, bring the other down from Endor, retreat our workers from Hastings (it has the cow to work, there's no point risking them for the farm until we know we have safety) and possibly chop one of the forests outside Hastings' BFC to get the barracks quicker.

In Hastings we'll have an axe, a warrior (who could become a spear) and three bowmen (BRickAstley is only a turn away, but we need to be prepared to lose whoever razes Seville frown) - we can defend and attack out without a problem. I'll think about where Suttree's cities are and how the units are going to arrive in a bit.

Pillaging the road and pasture is just too risky for my liking.

(By the way - I think logging in eight times for one turn might be a new record! tongue)
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