I get fifth and sixth pick in the snake pick - so that means while I'm unlikely to secure a power civ or power leader, I can guarantee my preferred civ for my preferred leader, because I get to pick both back to back.
my start definitely rules out any agriculture civs. I see no reason not to found in place on the PH, both food resources are within first ring and there's plenty of grass and river tiles. An extra hill and a sheep resource for production, plus the grass hill pigs means an extra hammer there too. Should be a great hybrid city, and primed for whipping early on.
Some civ possibilities, and my reasoning. Lurker comments welcome.
Sury II of Rome - Creative/Expansive for free border pops and cheap workers, along with Praetorians to be a threat and deterrent.
Pericles of the Dutch - Creative/Philosophical for free border pops and an early academy, along with the east indiaman and levee to dominate a water map.
Joao of the Dutch - Expansive/Imperialistic for cheap workers AND settlers AND dominate the seas with the Dutch.
This is just from some quick thoughts. Really my final choice will depend on what the others pick. If not many people are taking Financial, you could make an argument that it's less important to take Financial yourself, since you won't be so behind on tech, and use the spare 4 points to go for a more flexible civ rather than one whose obvious strength is tech.
mackoti Wrote:SO GAVAGAI WINNED ALOT BUT HE DIDNT HAD ANY PROBLEM?
I do not understand why your start rules out agriculture civs. If anything, it would make me think that I absolutely need Agri or Hunting. (This is normal BTS, right?)
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
well my reasoning was that I probably won't need agriculture as a tech until my second city, so i I take a civ with Hunting instead, I still get an AH prereq and I don't waste free starting beakers on a tech I won't be using until later, whereas Hunting will let me squeeze out a quick Archery if I want.
I don't know, maybe it's not relevant. The Dutch will be a top civ pick for me anyway and they get Agriculture, so.
mackoti Wrote:SO GAVAGAI WINNED ALOT BUT HE DIDNT HAD ANY PROBLEM?
An Agriculture start (like with the Dutch) actually works perfectly, simming out at 11 turns for AH, 12 turns for the first worker. Plus one turn to move onto the pigs, and I'm set.
Second worker has 6 turns to go when I finish the pigs.
The only problem is - the second worker is going to have not much to do if I want to go worker-worker-settler, since improving any other tiles will be pointless for a while and I won't be able to finish Mining/BW for a while.
Maybe I need to find an Agriculture/Mining civ. A couple of sims show that I can get my first settler out at t28 if I am Joao with either an Agri/Mining civ or Hunting/Mining civ.
I think we all start with a scout probably? Commodore has spoken in support of doing that in MP games, so he probably did it on his own map. If so, a Hunting/Mining start would be best because then I can get Archery quicker down the line. Agriculture/Mining start would be more flexible in terms of second city site, because if I don't have Agriculture, I certainly won't be able to get it by the time the second settler is out, not unless I skip Bronze Working, which will delay the settler a lot because I plan to put two chops into it.
I'll revolt to Slavery when the settler is finished, start a couple more chops and put them into another worker, a warrior, then a second settler.
Can't really sim much further than the first settler until I can scout on the real map.
One downside of a Mining start is that I will take a while to get to Pottery - so my capital will have only three improved tiles to work for a very long time (pig, sheep, grassland mine hill) . The upshot is that i'll be whipping from size 5 to 3 or 4 to 3 repeatedly, and on top of that a plains forest isn't too bad a tile to work as an Expansive or Imperialistic (or both) leader, because the two hammers count for a lot.
mackoti Wrote:SO GAVAGAI WINNED ALOT BUT HE DIDNT HAD ANY PROBLEM?
There are four Hunting/Mining civs - Germany, Russia, Khmer, and Ethiopia.
China
UU - Cho-Ko-Nu
UB - Pavilion
Germany
UU - Panzer
UB - Assembly Plant
Russia
UU - Cossack
UB - Research Institute
Khmer
UU - Ballista Elephant
UB - Baray
Ethiopia
UU - Oromo Warrior
UB - Stele
Thoughts on these from a noob
China - Weak unique unit - the Cho-Ko-Nu seems to fulfil the role of longbowmen and catapults simultaneously - while being unable to siege. So you still have to build catapults, and if you're going to build those, you might as well use them for collateral. On defense they seem the same as a longbow. The UB is nice for cultural wars, but it's not that nice.
Germany - Their UU is super lategame and probably won't become relevant. Their UB is also late midgame, and isn't game-defining even if the game goes that far.
Russia - Their UB is mega lategame and totally irrelevant, but Cossacks are awesome. They seem to basically prevent your opponents from fielding their own cavs in response, because they slaughter them.
Khmer - Ballista Elephants - people seem to be underwhelmed by these, I'm not sure why, but I guess they aren't that good? The Unique Building, the Baray, that is interesting - +1 food for every aqueduct sounds nice, but in practise, that's only half a pop point and can be replicated with a single grass farm as opposed to a cottage. A nice boost, I suppose.
Ethiopia - These guys actually seem like the best choice if I'm going for a start with Mining. The unique unit is a great musket replacement, very strong on both defense and offense, and I can almost be certain this game will at least go to musket/rifle stage. The Unique building, since I'm probably not going to be Creative after all, is a great way to expand borders a bit quicker and also control tiles more effectively in a culture war.
mackoti Wrote:SO GAVAGAI WINNED ALOT BUT HE DIDNT HAD ANY PROBLEM?
![[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0071.JPG]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28594063/Maps/Civ4ScreenShot0071.JPG)
