[Spoilers] MJW, the King of Italy BLACK BOOTS (Merovech lurks)

[MJW (ya that one)]

Read this mardoc

Okay I looked over your four options. The fifth option would be to make tt man up and play up but with his rant at me I don't think that's possible.

1. Call it as a win for some player. It would have to be France for obvious reasons. I'm okay as calling it a win for France if everyone else wants it. But if one person doesn't want it I would support him. A player can always come back from even 1 home SC because everyone could NMRs. There have been games of Chess were the opponent died and the other player won on time forfeit in a dead lost position.

2. Call it as a draw. If you do this I have no problems with it. This is probably my 3rd favorite option. Just remember to forfeit TT so I technically beat him.

3. Using a replacement player would screw over France for obvious reasons. To very big extent. I remember were plako (in the pitboss game with Sullla undercover) rushed a n00b and was quickly kicking his ass until a replacement player came it and played better. That's so unfair. So France would need to be okay with this otherwise I object. If France is okay with this I would have no problems screwing him over. If France approves this is my second Favorite option.

4. Having Russia NMR would screw over France ever more so the same logic applies as in #3. If France approves this somehow this is my favorite option. Remember that the units should be disbanded--not retreat.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Okay Mardoc I realized that France (not) objecting is a spoiler if give out that spoiler information is not acceptable to you--push the draw to my first choice. I normally don't care about other people like this but France getting screwed over is so unfair that it caused me to.

So let's react to TT! I'll spoiler his e-mail so you can see it without going back.

Subject line: Game Over

Just so you know, I'm officially quitting this game now.

Over the last few turns, you have completely ruined any kind of enjoyment or integrity that this game ever had. Throwing away a strong empire so pathetically is completely unsporting and gives me no inclination to bother doing anything when the game result is so monumentally swayed by one person being a douche.

The other turn when I just sold you a pack of lies and then didn't attach a document was my own little attempt at some cathartic vengeance but to be honest with you it was a waste of time.

It was bad enough when you brought your own personal grudges into this game before it had even begun and for the first few turns you exhausted and exasperated me with your ridiculous diplo. I could never really trust you.

I want nothing to do with you in any game of any kind from this point, you've ruined what was a good game with pettiness and I have little doubt that you would gladly do it again.

I'm just glad you can't win either, that would be the ultimate joke.

TT

I don't care about you quitting this game dude. I'm pretty sure that the "Game Over" line has some sort of subtext but I don't see it.

My strong empire was not really that strong when I had you Turkey, Austria and France attacking me--with Dtay refusing to stab French even if he gets a free SC (Portugal) so my nuclear threat was my last card to make him help out. Mattimeo is not enough. He also commented that Dtay was way too late without knowing that Scooter was out for my blood and a proxy of him. Also TT if you don't respect a player in a strong position you should respect his position otherwise your going to be roadkill when he attacks you. Not being friendly in this game is just begging to be attacked. I remember in the first diplo game were Rowain said that the Sandover approach to diplomacy gets you killed.

So why did you get so angry at me for defending myself from the stab? I pretty sure that this was before you learned about my nuclear threat. Your "waste of time" comment is totally sour grapes. I know me getting left off the hook hurt you no matter what you say. This was doomed to failure because you mailed it in and didn't look at things from my perspective. You have to pretend you allied with someone if you want to stab them like this TT otherwise you would suggest moves (and other things) that make no sense and get caught as a liar.

Yes I do realize I should have stuck with Rowain because of the reasons I outlined. So you brought up my "ridiculous diplo" and dislike of scooter too.

Well I can guess at least one thing you don't like about my diplo-- me trying to act like an ally to everyone. In this game if someone is not your ally that means they are probably going to attack you. So if you don't do that you might as well say "I'm going to attack you." And that's obviously a huge disadvantage to put yourself in. This is the main reason why your first stab failed against me. I expect that high-level diplo players doubledeal with everyone for this reason and the game becomes a stabfeast. Richard Sharp says that happens in GoD. This might not work here because you would get blacklisted and dogpilled on this site but that doesn't change facts. This might be like breaking NAPs here.

I do dislike Scooter. That e-mail he sent me perfectly shows why. He looks down on me in a condescending way and I really don't like it. I can put my personal dislike aside. For example if he was Germany and I was Austria I would never attack him. The "Game of Diplomacy" book says that you should consider personal grudges when playing. There was a striking example in werewolf were I defended scooter when literally no-one else did. I also don't understand why talking about it openly is worse than keeping bottled it up inside and then rage-quitting. (JowyXLewwyn in werewolf). I also didn't talk about it until the countries were drawn. Italy and Turkey have a very hostile relationship too. The only things they can do together is attacks against Austria and Russia when they become too strong. That's why I burned the scooter bridge because I thought it was worth it and he was a good player who would defend against you instead of suiciding into me. Also a grudge against scooter should have stopped you from stabbing me because you know I won't stab until scooter is dead or at one city center. That's the real reason I brought it into the game! (instead of not talking about it)

If I cannot win (I don't count 2% longshots) and I can ruin your game, and I don't like you, I'll do it every time. I don't think this was a good game as Dtay is basically became a vassal of France along with the low interest. I think you made an evaluation error of how much pressure I was under. I went nuclear before Austria switched sides because of you not talking to him. Even 14 SCs is not enough if everyone hates your guts and it felt like that to me. Unless England stabbed France I was screwed. Because England declined a free SC from France me going nuclear was the only card I had left to play. The threat of the nuclear option made Dtay flip from France. This is a good example of the threat being stronger than the execution.

I sure that there are worse jokes as this a real life while this is just a game. For example on American Greed show someone stole people's life savings and went to Norway. He's totally free there as Norway doesn't extradite to America for white-collared crime. If you wanted to make sure TT you should have just stayed and defended until I died.

That's about it. If I look unapologetic I'll tell you that I would not have done this if I would feel sorry. Remember two days happen when you make your choices. When someone apologies to me I always consider they might be lying to me for this very reason.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Okay because this game might not go on I'll summarize.

Frist Rowain offered Key Lepanto and I of course accepted. I also contacted TT suggesting that we kill turkey and then Rowain. You have to ask Rowain why he offered me Key Lepanto. I would guess he felt pressure from Turkey and Russia and if I stab him the game is over anyway.

I was following along with the plan. TT said he was okay not stabbing at once. Until around six hours around the deadline. Uh.... not a good idea. I thought he was trying to make me waste my and Austria's turn and that scooter allowed him into the black sea otherwise turkey is screwed anyway. I didn't understand a legitimate reason why any one would wait that long so I assume he was lying. Meanwhile I made Scooter waste his turn because I thought TT would kill him with us. That didn't happen. I would give credit TT for messing me up like that but I think he was nervous about this game and procrastinated. I cannot give credit for not being able to do what you really want to do.

Anyway I talk to TT after that turn and he had an emotional freakout that convinced me that he wanted a Russian-Italian Alliance and I accepted. I got greedy and disrespect Rowain and went for three SCs. I also confused VIE and VEN. If it weren't for those errors I would be able to attack Russia or move the units away from Russia so he would trust me. However, if Scooter didn't waste a turn trying to defend himself that wouldn't mattered. So I wouldn't stab Austria knowing that Russia would not trust me in the end and attack me. If scooter didn't waste that turn and I still made my mistakes Russia could crush me easily and would do so. Scooter doing that made me able to make TT rage quit and stop my Italy from burring down. If I knew scooter could go "nuclear" on me I would have stabbed him by acting like an ally but I would not have brought the "grudge" and I would have written dick-sucking emails after that. I exaggerated my dislike of scooter to make Russia sure that I wouldn't stab him until he killed scooter but scooter going nuclear made that blow up in my face.

Next TT tried to stab me but failed due to suddenly spamming his thread like crazy and mailing in his diplomacy. Saying and acting that your are not allies in this game most of the time is saying "I'm going to attack you" which I refuse to do. This failed stab shows why giving your opponent a one-turn warning is so bad. They put units on the front and leave little behind because it's over anyway if someone else attacks. If TT sucker-punched me and then worked with turkey and Austria I would only be able to give two SCs to France.

I tried to reason with TT thinking I'm screwed if he stabs again. He totally wanted to stab me again. I don't think he saw my nuclear threat then. He made the error of not looking at the position threw my eyes--not knowing I had to guard TRI and GRE. So his stab failed again. His "your not worth it" comment is also totally sour grapes. He also made huge mistakes by not talking to scooter and rowain causing horrible disasters. One was allowing me to walking into BUL and the other was me able to save VIE. Scooters and Rowain's units were few but extremely powerful because they were on the front line.

Anyway France also stabbed me. I didn't think France had it in him to cold-cock backstab me after me helping him into MUN. ~ won't fail for that. So now I needed England to stab France at all costs so I came up with my nuclear plan. I sent an e-mail and rowain too so it would leak and waited. I would give up hope if England didn't stab and focus on screwing over TT. I'm not alone and mattimeo said England was way too late without knowing that Scooter was hostile to me. I was able to make England stab by my nuclear threat and getting Germany MUN. However, he showed up too late for it to work so I panicked and stuck with my backup plan. (Although I have to admit I really liked that back up plan! ) What I should have done was make England stab and saved Austria instead. This would also allow me to attack TT effectively with the extra Austiran unit. I would apologize to Dtay and explain that he's already too late in attacking France and him only responding near the deadline makes true diplomacy impossible so I had to resort to using manipulation and tricks with him. If I made no mistakes I would have actually gained a build and would be able to fight back. But as I said before that was unlikely but possible due to cyneheard's trick of only telling me what I needed to know. I won't underestimate you next time!

Anyway I'm probably not going to play in other one of these games because the threat of someone's internet going out for a day and therefor not being able to do anything for a full turn is not an acceptable risk. Nothing happens on the first day. I don't want to spend so many hours with them being mooted by something like mattimeo's and TT's problems (from earlier in the game). Edit: Unless it's no-press or broadcast only were commutation is less important.

There's one minor detail I want to take care of. When TT told me that pack of lies he lied about his internet in order to justify not responding. So when you call me out for being paranoid about that I'll point to this from now on! (edit--fixed typo)

So do you have any questions or comments you lurkers?

Edit: Well it looks like the game would go on. France and Turkey might do a planned retreat in ION and the best move there would be to support ION with GRE which would look silly. <---Edit not possible for tactical reasons. Attacking NAP would better.

Edit2: Should make Dtay lie to mattimeo to bounce out france on MUN. Also useful if you change your mind at last second.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Okay for my final update I'll post my final talk with Rowain. I did talk with England but his response to me assumed that Russia would not NMR so it's not relevant. The most important thing about this chat is that Rowain would get a build and pass scooter in SC.

Well it looks like Russia is going to NMR. With scooter still hostile to both of us we are going to have to play as a single nation for quite some time in order to have a chance against France. I want to try and win this thing as TT said that would be the ultimate joke in his rant against me.

So were should I retreat the fleet? I'm going to APU unless you say something.

I have no objection to you retreating into APU.

With Russia NMR you can take BUL and TRI back and later conquer Turkey. I would like to make a standoff with you in VIE.

Or even better forget BUL now but take SMY

Sounds like a plan. I will support APU to ION for obvious reasons.

England's plan is to kill Germany and go from there. Probably to convey units into STP. Is this bad enough for France to solo now? If it is we should pull out all the stops with England.

Do you have any thoughts about TT going NMR? That wasn't my intention.

I don't know why TT quit. If it was game-related I think he made some questionable moves in the past and should not run from the consequences.

With Russia NMR france chances to solo have become worse as you & England have easy centers in reach while he has to fight for his.

Okay so we are not at the point of a "nuclear meltdown" if England takes out Germany?

Also, in addition to my other thought, can you think of any leverage I can say to England to get him to attack France?

[MJW (ya that one)]

This is way late but I just noticed that cyneheard "typoed" BEL and HEL. This means mardoc's and rowain's agruments about "VEN and VIE incident" were correct. I'm sorry. This along with cyneheard not letting England have BEL could have led to an England stab. This possiblity is not enough for Russia as even if it happens this game is a shadow game and a waste of his time (from his perspective). So this would not have mattered but still fun .

I still think that this is inconsistent with not causing you to NMR when you are late at all. I could have done exterme damage to TT in Spring 04 if I were a bad boy and changed my intended orders when the mod basically confrimed that he would stab me by telling everyone that only one person did'nt submit moves... My intended orders were pro-TT as possible: I had to go to TRI to stop Rowain retreating thier and support GRE because Scooter can attack it for free if he supports AEG. If I were bad he might have raged-quit on the spot and with a destory on the BUL army I might even had a chance...

Also, I had a chat with Rowain after the game that I can post in case anyone wants it and he gives permission.