[SPOILERS] Team BASTARD settles on deer.

[Mardoc]

So, yeah, I'm playing a Pitboss despite vowing never to do so. Thanks, Brick, for agreeing to partner with me so that it's realistic!

At the moment Brick's pretty busy in RL, so I'll be mostly talking to myself until things settle down for him. But that's ok, there's not a lot to talk about yet anyway! Just gotta wait for the map.

We did chat some: main conclusion is that any combination of BrickAstley and Mardoc that we can come up with sounds stupid. But maybe lurkers or other players will have a decent suggestion.

[Mardoc]

Oh, and we'll be keeping our random assignment civ. Pro/Fin seems like a pretty strong combo, and even better - one that's easy to use. Spain is harder to justify, but we can't reroll just half. And if we happen to be Spain on a Lake, then I think we can guarantee ourselves the Buddhism Holy City by researching it first thing. Stupid idea in a 5-player PBEM, but I think it can be strong in a 33 player game. Looking at how powerful Shrines are in PB18, and then extrapolating to a bigger game...well, it's encouraging.

Aside from that, we're pretty much just waiting to see what we get in terms of terrain and neighbors. And possibly to change our minds on chasing religion. No useful worker techs at the start could be a problem for our snowball if we need them and don't research those first. Buddhism will be easiest to justify if we have a lake-fish to start with .

Maybe if I'm bored I'll take a crack at opponent analysis. And/or try to wrap my head around RBMod - there've been a lot of changes that I've only partially assimilated, since I've never installed the mod. You can learn some things through lurking, but I'm sure I'm missing stuff too.

[BRickAstley]

We already decided this. BrickASTley + MARDoc = Team BASTARD.

[Mardoc]

We already decided this. BrickASTley + MARDoc = Team BASTARD.

If I have temporarily forgotten something, clearly that's identical to it never happening

[Mardoc]

Ok, so I'm bored, and can't concentrate on the work I should be doing. Therefore...let's start on team analysis, and mix it with RBMod newness!

Team BASTARD first, of course. It's either first or last, and I can't analyze the rest of everyone until I know what they've picked/gotten stuck with.

Players: Lurkers extraordinaire! Neither of us has really had a game where we've shone, though. And that mostly seems to be a function of playing it by ear rather than detailed planning. We both understand the general theory, but don't tend to spend the time to apply it to specific games. I don't really think this is the game that changes that, as we're both pretty busy and committed to a number of other things, but who knows? Worth trying to be better, anyway.

Wang Kon (Fin/Pro) of Spain

Financial is now "Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank." Still basically solid, it means we can extract extra value out of non-riverlands. And coasts. Especially coasts, it turns them from barely ok to pretty decent. Still no competition for a well grown cottage. Still, we can get more from the same land - or can benefit from cities other teams don't feel is worth the investment. Half-price banks is nice, but not gamebreaking. But it does push us toward Rifling at that point in the tree. Conclusion: Still a nice trait, still a trait that basically rewards you for doing what you should be doing whether or not you're Fin. Doesn't require any extra effort to get value from.

Protective has had an enormous rework. It's now: Protective: Free CG1 promo for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls. Now it's a nice trait. Granary buff is awesome, since of course every city needs one. On top - whips have been slightly nerfed - a normal Granary can't be 2-pop whipped anymore without some other hammer source, but a Pro one can be 1-pop whipped without problem. Although apparently you should be chopping forests into your granaries rather than relying on whipping them in.

Walls, CG1 are both situational, but ought to help us run with more effective defenses. Wall boost indirectly helps us get our UB, which is handy. In general we'd rather not be using either of these boosts since we don't want to be fighting in our territory - but their mere existence ought to make fighting in our territory somewhat less likely. As long as we unlock archery units and walls, of course .

Spain has a Fishing/Mysticism start, which doesn't appear to have been changed by the mod. If we have appropriate fish, it's reasonable, otherwise we'll have to catch up immediately on worker techs while everyone else can race to Bronze Working and Pottery. Fishing/Myst are, in fact, the techs most often delayed for ages. OTOH - if we have a lake, no one can get to Buddhism before us. Maximum possible commerce pre-worker, and Myst gives us a head start on the tech. I think religions are going to be hugely valuable this game, since they scale based on total cities, not fraction of them. And IIRC the passive spread probability is related to fraction of total map size, not absolute distance, which means we'll have to spend less on missionaries for the benefit, too.

UU: Conquistador. Cuirasser with +50% vs melee and defensive bonuses allowed. If we get there ahead of our neighbors having rifles, I don't think there's any counter. And they're a 2-mover, which is always a nice bonus for the attack. Main downside to these guys: Cuir is a late unit. By the time we get that deep in the tree, I honestly expect total empire strength to matter more than any particular unit. If we're ahead of a neighbor in tech, and outproduce them, we'll be able to beat them slightly cheaper than if we used Cuirs. If we're not, then Conquistadores won't save us.

UB: Citadel. Odd duck of a building. Castle with bonus XP to siege units should let us get away with fewer cats for the same effect. In a big, RBMod game, castles might be more worthwhile than normal, since the time between Engineering and Economics is longer and trade routes are worth more. They're still a building that expires, whose primary benefit (the +100% defense) is only helping you as a threat, or if you're losing. I'm not really sure if they'll be worth building or not, we're going to have to wait and see how the game develops. They are not doubled by Protective anymore, but stone still doubles them. Honestly, I think availability of stone will make the biggest difference for us - 50 hammers + super cheap wall is worth it for the trade route alone, I think, and all the other benefits are at least situationally useful. 100 hammers + sorta cheap wall is worth it only in special cases.

All that said, the vast majority of our specials are just going to boost things we ought to be doing anyway. Working commerce tiles, building granaries are both no brainers with or without the boost. Which is a large part of why I'm pleased with this leader. Don't have to master RBMod civics immediately, like Spi would require, or anything similar from the other active, situational, traits.

The other Pro abilities will hopefully allow us to be prickly and left in peace. We don't really want to be in a situation where we need the bonuses, but flashing the occasional CG II archer in a walled city ought to make people invade elsewhere. And when it does come time to go offensive, we can prevent counterattacks more easily.

[Mardoc]

I can see even keeping our thread on the front page of the SUBforum will be difficult this time around. I'm starting to get a feel for just how insane this game will be .

It does make me feel better about the idea of shooting for a religion, though. We're going to have to pick our first-to's very carefully with a crowd this big, but that's one we can guarantee, given the right circumstances. It's still a bit crazy, will hurt our snowball, but I think the long term rewards probably justify it. Just need neighbors who don't kill us while we're recovering from it.

And, well, if we pick Buddhism in particular, it's a cheap tech, so it won't hurt our snowball *that* much. The main snowball penalty is simply Spain. Grabbing religion is a silver lining to those start techs, really.

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And to make this post more useful than just repeating strategy points that depend on stuff we don't know yet, I'll pick another player at random from those whose thread titles make it clear that they're keeping their leader, and discuss them and their civ in the context of RBMod. In this case, Pindicator!

Pindicator is darn good at this game. I'm a little uncertain how much of his skill is his own, and how much requires discussion with scooter and Noble to really shine - but I'm very certain he's better than me. In the Scootinator partnership, Pin generally provides the detail work: how to get a wonder, logistics for a war, etc. Much as I want to believe otherwise, that's probably the more valuable portion. Anyone can make a grand strategy, implementation is what makes it work or not. I hope that he's a) distracted by the Pitboss he might win, and b) not as good at grand strategy without his team to bounce ideas off of. But I only hope, I don't know.

Biggest weakness: morale. Pin is playing a lot of these games. Give him a major setback, and he might check out of this one to focus elsewhere like he did in PB15. Of course, that game had extra pressure in the form of an opponent pool that wouldn't make mistakes to let him back in the game - and that he knew wouldn't make mistakes. This game, not so much.

He got Qin Shi Huang of China, Agr/Min, Pro/Ind, Pavillion/ChoKoNu

Pro is still as described in our summary, Ind is unchanged from vanilla (except Metal Casting is easier to get now, giving the Forge bonus earlier). Probably slightly weaker than Wang Kon, at least in the context of 32 other civs also hungering for wonders.

Agri/Mining are perhaps the best set of starting techs - certainly the most versatile. ChoKoNu are awesome, alternative collateral choices are always handy, and this one can kill and attack amphibiously. And get free CG1, in case they weren't strong enough already. Best way to handle Chos is initiative - on defense they're just a crossbow. That makes them a better defensive unit than offensive, if their 1-move nature didn't already imply that. Pavillions - I had to look them up. Apparently +25% culture is all they get beyond the base building, which is a theatre - not normally a building you want most places anyway. Still, three out of four ain't bad.

All in all, I would expect Pindicator to get off to a rocket fast start with Pro and those techs, and sustain it with sheer skill. His civ's biggest weakness is lack of a real economic booster like Fin Org or Agg, but he can get around that by either solid micro (which he has) or grabbing and exploiting an econ boosting wonder (wouldn't bet against him here either). With maybe a side order of successful conquest. Best opportunity for derail is if he fails on a goal he sets (conquest, Mids, Great Lighthouse) or he borders someone who hits him first. If that happens, there's a good chance it's followed by him checking out of the game. Not super likely, but more likely than beating him straight-up.

All in all, one of the contenders to actually win this game. I hope we don't border him.

[BRickAstley]

I like the Buddhist plan. Spread our religon everywhere, let everyone pay for our teching, use PRO archers to defend our shrine.

Flawless plan!

[Mardoc]

Cool, we just need Commodore to give us enough rope to hang ourselves, then. (lake fish!). Obviously not going to try this if we don't have a workable commerce tiles at the beginning of the game.

Not sure it's a good move, but at least these are ideal conditions for it. This way, if we lose it's because of our gambit, clearly, not our skill

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Also, we're still missing a naming scheme. Paranoia based?

[Mardoc]

You poor doomed lurkers. I'm starting to wonder how you can possibly keep up with the threads. 18 threads updated since this one did a mere 18 hours ago. And we don't even have the game to talk about yet!

IF there are any of you, anyway, beyond Commodore and Sullla.

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Well. I don't just want to bump the thread, so let's move on to analyzing the next Keeper. Fintourist/Old Harry/The Human Hydra

I honestly think this trio is a black horse. They seem to have their act together in micro, decent macro skills, and have been unlucky. They get along pretty well, too. The biggest weakness I see is their warfighting. They seem to pick fights they can't win, and they seem to underestimate siege. Although they may have learned from that. And the fights they can't win - at least where I've seen it, it's been something they knew was a long shot, but they value winning over placing, so they tried anyway.

They ended up with Victoria of the Aztecs. Fin/Imp, Myst/Hunting, Jaguar Warrior Sac. Altar.

Generally buffed by RBMod, in my option. Imp is now Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence. +60% production of Settler. +100% production of Custom House, meaning settlers are even cheaper and Customs Houses an even better deal. Fin was nerfed, but still strong. Starting techs were buffed by Hunting unlocking pastures - Myst means that they may consider racing us for Buddhism.

Jaguar was buffed by the recent Sword buff - woodsman I, metalless, Str 5, +50% vs city. They can get WoodsmanII, the double move in forests promo, easily, and +50% vs city means they can take cities. Their neighbors need to be especially diligent in chopping forests and jungles, therefore!

Sac Alter - the reduced whip unhappy was a minor benefit when you wanted to be 2-pop whipping all the time anyway. Now that that's penalized, they can still 1-pop whip often. The reduced cost of their courthouse is a nice little buff, too.

All in all I'd put this team in top tier. I hope we don't border them, either.

[Mardoc]

And, I can log into the test game

For future reference, we agreed our password will be "Rice". Because it's both spanish and korean, sorta.