[NO PLAYERS] Lurker Thread #115

[spacetyrantxenu]

Lack of interest? Army annihilated all at once? Didn't build an army?

[Jowy]

I was prepared for REM's attack, I started mass producing units before he even had cataphracts and I was #1 in Soldiers. I don't know the details but my civ still collapsed regardless. That UU is no joke.

[spacetyrantxenu]

That's definitely true, BTS phracts are an awesome UU. I'm not surprised REM has been able to win wars with it. I'm surprised the remaining players after you got attacked didn't start doing more to keep REM from being able to win the game. This is a PBEM, not a pitboss, there aren't enough players on the map to play economy and not bother stopping the guy with phracts. Sooner or later they're coming your way. In PB11 we definitely won the war with phracts but lost the game because our economy was completely not recoverable in the period of time we had to do it to keep up with the many other players who were researching so much better than us. I don't think that is remotely going to matter here. I'm guessing REM's economy is somewhere between 1929 Depression America and 1945 pre-Marshall Plan Europe in its output.

But you know what he has? A ton of land and the ability to build more more more awesome phracts. After Bob's epic collapse I don't think retep will be able to counter such an incredible land disadvantage. Who cares if REM can't research if he can pump strength 12 units from so many cities? The other players should have built more power and attacked him while he was on the offensive on another front, to flatten out his ability to make more conquests. But that's easy for me to say, it's long been the profitable way to ignore war and play economy while your rivals are bludgeoning each other. That plan (Retep, Bob, Cornflakes) may have worked if ANY of REM's neighbors were able to draw him into a protracted stalemate. As it went though, he's on the way to winning from what I can tell, partially because everyone (after Jowy) seemed to play on hoping that the phract zerg would just attack someone else.

[Gawdzak]

REM's got this won I think. He's got 30 cities to retep's 14. Rifles are nice but cats and cataphracts should beat anything before infantries and machine guns.

[Bobchillingworth]

Lack of interest? Army annihilated all at once? Didn't build an army?

Yes.

[spacetyrantxenu]

As it would sound like advice if I said it in REM's thread I'll say it here. If he's worried about SoZ war weariness he should definitely build Note Dame. Spread out over 30+ cities that thing would pay for itself in quick whips instantly.

[GermanJoey]

I agree. I think ND is a very underrated wonder. When it is first becomes available, after Engineering is attained, most players will be comfortably under happy cap civ-wide thanks to HR, whipping, markets, etc, and have other priorities to stuff into their build queues. ND thus seems like a big waste of time and hammers. However, the happy situation soon changes as players gear into war mode, the other hallmark of Engineering... and ND becomes the only option for mitigating War Weariness. No Mt Rushmore, no Police State, no Jails - suddenly those +2 happy faces in each city look pretty goddamn appealing no matter what its hammer cost may be.

[Cornflakes]

This was actually pretty awesome. Taj is only needed for one turn...



Game looks to be headed for a thrilling conclusion.

hmmm ... in both my games (PB9 and this one) I've had odd plays at Taj.

[Cornflakes]

If I get Gunpowder I will be safe for another era of military tech, since I will be able to draft Janissary ... and I am SPI to swap in for a 5 turns of Drafting spree as soon as I get the tech while saving gold for my next push of research. I would have to save gold for a turn anyway, so this turn cancels out of the comparison. Direct gunpowder research would take 3 turns, research through the other pre-requisite Guilds path takes 10-turns but gains me 20% of 1440 beaker cost (288 beakers). This is approximately 1-turn of non-GAge break-even post-oxford research. Going through the Guilds line will save me 1-turn to every subsequent tech. I've decided to take the gamble.

I have scrap a 18 knight stack and I most likely declare war to Conrflakes (with only 12 knights as first wave) in two turns. Should work since Cornflakes can only build spearmans as best defensive unit.

Oh Cornflakes...

Going directly to Gunpowder you'd lose at most one or two cities, going via Guilds (and then switching once you realise what Retep is up to) gives Retep 4-5 turns to take whatever he wants.

I'm all for taking risks to get ahead in an FFA, but when your neighbours have Knights and you're bottom power by far that's a very long shot.

Edit: Now watch REM attack Retep and prove me totally wrong.

I underestimated the length of 10 turns in this game, and how much the world changes in that amount of time ... Looking back it may have been better to shoot strait to Gunpowder. As it was, Retep's attack on me cost him more than it gained him as I said it would. I think if I was in that position again though I would pick up Gunpowder first.