[Team 2 & Lurkers Only] Kragroth: Orc Warchief Speaks!

[Kragroth]

This Thread is for Team 2 and Lurkers Only!

Information here is confidential. Do not share with Team 1. Do not ruin the game. For previous chapters, look here

[Kragroth]

Chapter 6

Kragroth, Cardith Lorda, and Tasunke discussed tactics in their shared war room.

Cardith: What is the best way to defeat our enemy?
Kragroth: What can our enemy do?
Tasunke What?
Tasunke What can our enemy do? What are their options?
Cardith: Well let's see, Hannah is Financial and her Seafaring ability is shared with her team mates. They will likely want to get fishing sooner than later?
Tasunke Why?
Cardith: What's the point of getting a seafaring civilization if you don't intend to use it? Also, the enemy spoke previously of wanting a "naval option".
Kragroth: They will attack us with Ships or Cultists?
Tasunke It's possible but likely not for some time, but they will pride themselves for being the best shipbuilders. Cultists are possible but unlikely so long as the Divine Compact against Tsunami is obeyed.
Cardith: It's an economic ploy then yes? Absolutely. 2 base commerce for water +1 for financial + 1 for seafaring and another +1 for harbor when it's built. This isn't including any resources on the tile or pirate coves either. It's extremely enticing for the lanun to build by the sea economically.
Kragroth: And enticing for Hannah's allies too yes?
Cardith: Right, her allies will be nearly as enticed to build at sea as well. 2 base water commerce + 1 seafaring. 3 Commerce is not bad for starting terrain needing more improvements. A harbor can make that even nicer.
Kragroth: What can hurt water tiles?
Tasunke A ship can blockade water tiles so that a city cannot use them.
Kragroth: Hahaha, no economy for little Lanun girl! Hey, what if orc made ship and then blockaded the tentacle girl? They not expect it and we go "Hahaha, no economy for little Lanun girl!"
Cardith: Heh, it's possible. They probably wouldn't expect it, but they'd have a headstart on us and they'd definitely get the technology first. There's nothing preventing them from building a couple of ships to prevent blockades either.
Kragroth: True, but what if we all settle near water and build army of ships to blockade at just the right time to ruin them!
Tasunke Possible, but they'd still have the lead and they'd still get the most benefit from settling near the water while we wouldn't have seafaring tech to help us. Also, we'd have no particular starting advantage getting hammers to build our ships.
Kragroth: Hmmm, do you think all 3 of them settle near water?
Cardith: I doubt it, speaking for myself, there are so many rich resources on the land, I'd hate to force all 3 of my eventual cities to be on the water. 3 tiles out of water tiles with no hammers! I could build cottages eventually just fine. I doubt my shadow would settle more than 1 city on the water.
Kragroth: So maybe Jonas and Hannah be main ones to build on water?
Tasunke Most likely yes.
Kragroth: So what synergies does this team have together?
Tasunke With a good mix of hills and plans forests, both Jonas and Cardith can crank settlers fairly quickly. Hannah gets the most benefit at sea for having cities. Moreover, there's a certain synergy to coastal cities and trade routes. The lighthouse which will likely be built eventually. The Great Lighthouse grants +2 trade routes for coastal cities. Moreover, the Trade Tech grants +1 trade routes and the foreign trade civic grants +1 trade trade routes and +1 trade routes on coastal cities.
Kragroth: Me confused, what you trying to say human.
Tasunke (Sigh), that's a lot of trade routes. There's the potential for infinite city sprawl here. With enough trade routes, a newly settled city can potentially bring in more revenue than it takes away.
Kragroth: What, you afraid that they try to "City" us to death? Hahaha. That seems unlikely
Cardith: True, they'll probably be cautious and they won't all be adjacent to the sea, but the team is definitely built to be able to produce a lot of settlers. They don't even have to gift Hannah coastal cities. They could gift her land ones too and benefit from the financial trait.
Kragroth: Possible, but lot of cities means lots of costs. Costs can get very high.
Cardith: True in the short term. Some of that can be mitigated in the long term as we talked about before. But, cities can be a mix of economy and production too. and don't forget that cities can help secure luxury resources to help other cities build military. Hannah would be good at making such cities pull their own weight.
Kragroth: Hmmm, enemy will likely want to get Sailing because of Lighthouses and Pearls. But, Sailing very expensive. Sailing cost nearly as much as Code of Laws or Philosophy. A few more beakers and you get a Religion. Can sailing do more?
Tasunke Tit for tat sailing can be useful economically. With three civilizations instead of one, it's more likely that at least one of them will find pearls, and yes lighthouses add trade routes and food which help an economy. But, Sailing also let's you transport settlers to islands and warriors to the enemy. It can potentially be faster moving an army by sea than land.
Kragroth: You need a lot of ships to move an army.
Tasunke Potentially, but a newborn galley can hold up to 5 units. That's not bad for a unit that helps 1 movement warriors, axemen, etc. get around.
Kragroth: Haha, then we build our own ships and destroy their ships which destroys their army! HaHa!
Cardith: Yes, but don't forget the Lanun Worldspell: Raging Seas. If they're really worried about losing, they'll let go the spell all of our units will be damaged and vulnerable to annihilation by their ships. Don't forget, they might bring a Trireme with them.
Kragroth: A Trireme?
Cardith: Yes, they can build one when they learn Bronzeworking, they can bombard coastal cities to remove their defenses during attack.
Kragroth: Hmm, a cheap catapault
Cardith: Yes, I could envision a dual attack where the TIreme blockades our water while bombarding our city defenses. The enemy warriors attack after the bonuses are brought to 0.
Kragroth: Hmm, Trireme good at denying water tiles, but not very versatile, it can't leave the water.
Cardith: True, but the Galley can make transporting slow troops much easier.
Kragroth: Yes, enemy must get sailing then bronzeworking and copper to really be able to mount a serious attack. That take a long time. What else can they do?

Cardith and Tasunke looked at each other briefly and then at Kragroth and smiled.

[Eclipse]

Tasunke
(Growling while chewing Hippus food)(sniff) ahh enemy nearby (farts)(smiles) Tasunke weapons of mass destruction almost ready.

[Kragroth]

Chapter 7

Tasunke shared a moment with a farm maiden, Piera.



Tasunke Ah, my dear Piera, you are as sweet as a winter's rose.
Piera: A winter's rose? Do such things exist?
Tasunke: Oh yes, quite rare and exquisite
Piera: Oh? Well thank you then.
Tasunke places his hands over Piera's
Tasunke: Yes, your hands are like silk, your lips like honey, your hair like....
Kragroth storms out of the Kuriorate Palace far away
Kragroth: Tasunke! Quit fooling around human and get your pagt gar over her!
Tasunke: Hey, is that any way to talk to the Lord of the Hippus!
Kragroth: Now human! This important!
Tasunke quickly bowed to Piera before dash-jumping onto his horse and galloping back to the capitol
Piera: Tasunke?!
Tasunke: Sorry dear, duty calls!
Tasunke galloped straight into the Kuriorate Palace and into the War Room, horse and all.
Tasunke: Yes, what is it? What's so important?!
Kragroth pulls out a map from a scout report
Kragroth: Look human!



Kragroth: It's that sea hag Hannah! She tortured my mind and helped murder my sons!
Tasunke: It's that she-bitch Hannah! She killed my sister!
Kragroth and Tasunke together: I Hate Hannah!
Tasunke: So what are we going to do about it?!
Kragroth: Knowledge is power and I don't want her getting any more power. It will take 5 turns for her to find my city if she moves right. I want you to move your scout to intercept her, the scout can finish her scout off with a high percentage chance.
Tasunke: What about your goblin scout?
Kragroth: Goblin too slow without wolf. Goblin scout is best to travel and explor e more land towards enemy camp.
Tasunke: Hmm, if Hannah travels through the forests, it will nullify my aggressive advantage. I'm not willing to risk a loss to create a promoted scout that's harder to kill in our lands.
Kragroth: True, we need a little more firepower. We need to try to trap Hannah's scout by making her go nearby both a warrior and a scout.
Kragroth scribbles on the parchment and shows it to Tasunke.



Kragroth: Blue means hilll. Purple is where Hannah scout will likely go. Red is where we should have scout and warrior.
Tasunke: What's the significance of hills? Why are they called out?
Kragroth: Every unit sees 1 tile in all directions by default. If any tile with 2 tiles is a hill or mountain, then that unit sees that tile there also.
Tasunke: Oh, interesting
Kragroth: At that point, Hannah's scout will see a hill, but not the capitol. Moreover, it's not too far away for the warrior to retreat if need be.
Tasunke: Hmm, I assume the scout attacks first and if he dies, the warrior finishes off Hannah?
Kragroth: Very good human. Even if Hannah's scout is on a forest, Aggressive Scout + Aggressive Warrior stand good chance of winning.
Tasunke: The scout of course might have an extra move and retreat back after seeing our Scout and Warrior together.
Kragroth: True, but then your scout can follow her retreat and slow her down. At least that gives us all more time to build warriors. It much easier to pin scout if home city is protected well.
Tasunke: You know, the problem with this plan is that she'll know where your city is.
Kragroth: What you mean?
Cardith enters the room
Cardith: Sorry for being late, but I think I know what Tasunke is saying. If another civilization border is 2 tiles away, you will catch a glimmer of that border.
Kragroth: So what?
Cardith: Well, if Hannah circumnavigates the inland sea, she will be able to surmise that your capitol is next to the sea, open to a naval attack.
Kragroth: ...
Tasunke: And you know how that tentacled freak loves her naval attacks!
Cardith looks at Kragroth's map
Cardith: There's an issue with trying to avoid the enemy know where your city is. Whenever a unit is adjacent to a coast, that unit sees all tiles adjacent to that coast.
Cardith redraws the map and shows it to Kragroth and Tasunke.



Cardith: You see, if Hannah's scout stands in that circled tile, she'll automatically know where your city is located and she'll see all of those tiles there. She'll likely surmise that your city is adjacent to water. We should try to avoid that if possible.
Tasunke: Let's actually plot out her most likely path
Tasunke takes another parchment and redraws the map again



Tasunke: You see, in the middle of turn 3, she'll find the border for your city. Unless she dilly dallies around and takes a longer path around and why would she do that. At the fastest, she'll be one of the spots marked with a 5 in 5 turns.
Kragroth: Hmm, so many places she could be
Tasunke: Possibly, but whenever I scout, I like to get my full 2 moves in. One move on a plains/grassland and another move onto a Forest or Hill.
Kragroth: Open area not give defensive bonus, more likely to die from attack and not be able to explore more yes?
Tasunke: Absolutely.
Kragroth: Hmm, and so 2 tiles above capitol not likely good spot, because Hannah scout likely see warrior and scout and be able to retreat?
Cardith: Correct, hence the red x. If we put the scout and the warrior on the red x, Hannah will likely complete her last move on a forest and afterwards it will be too late, the scout will be next to the scout and the warrior. And, it's very hard for the enemy to survive both attacks.
Kragroth let out a half smile
Kragroth: At least we have a good chance of preventing her from finding all our cities.

[Kragroth]

Chapter 8

Kragroth, Tasunke, and Cardith Lorda met another day to continue their talks

Cardith: So we met last time, what did we determine?
Tasunke: We'll likely lose in a sea fight and we lack the advantages the Lanun do. Moreover, getting Sailing and then through Bronze Working is a bit slow.
Kragroth: Yes. So, what else is possible? Maybe Sailing and Bronze Working Slow and maybe they can do better?
Cardith: Like what?
Kragroth: Well, Arete Tech let you build Mines of Gal Dur which gives 3 Iron. 3 Leaders: 3 Iron. Maybe they Soldier of Kilmorph and Axemen Rush us with Iron.
Tasunke: That's possible, but that's still a lot of tech before they can build their final units. Maybe to make it'd work they'd have to Draft Units with that military state civic.
Cardith: Military Strategy tech is a lot of tech
Tasunke: True, what if they upgraded though? Build a bunch of warriors, spend the gold and voila! Quick powerful 6 Str Army!
Kragroth: 6 Str Army nice, but against probable 5 Str Army with 1 more promotion is less nice. Slight advantage won't conquer cities and that's a long way to walk.
Cardith: What if these Iron Axemen / Soldiers of Kilmorph were faster? What if they had mobility 1 promotion or were with mages?
Tasunke: Mobility 1 requires Horseback Riding and that's going to make it take even longer.
Kragroth: Orc adepts have Body Mana which Gives haste. Orc adepts no need to build mage guilds.
Cardith: Yes, you're onto something. With 1 extra tech and a few orc adepts built, that army can move much more quickly. They could even use their workers to build a path for them and potentially get 4 squares per turn outside of the city without mobility 1!
Kragroth: That not bad, but it lack definite knockout hammer. It still slightly better strength warrior vs. slightly lower strength 1 better promoted warrior in a city.
Tasunke: They could add Catapaults to their attack. Though of course they wouldn't benefit from haste.
Kragroth: Catapaults messy and slow. Orc not like to make catapault when orc has warren. And that's even more tech!
Cardith: There's a natural synergy to getting Knowledge of the Ether and then Ashen Veil. Ritualists could provide the knockout punch? Jonas is spiritual and could be a fit for it? Getting Mobility 1 is a nice bonus and Favored grants more xp
Kragroth: Ritualist with Mobility faster than Adept with Haste. Ritualist too fast for adept and adept need Mobility too, but that requires horseback riding. Ring of Flames nice, but the gods have really hurt the Ashen Veil and it cost many many beakers. Priesthood expensive too. It be a long time before our enemies be able to build and use Ritualists. Ritualist Strength could be better too. They want axemen with them too to mop up enemies.
Kragroth: It's a lot of tech with a lot of varied units. Still very slow. We will talk more. There must be a better strategy for our enemy to defeat us with that is quicker. Kragroth must think awhile.

[Aurorarcher]

Taking a quick look at graphs/demos (now that we've met our rivals):

From these we can figure out something about our enemies movements/settling places:










1) Both Lanun and Kuriotates (the enemy one!) settled on flat land.
2) Jonas probably settled on a hill, he worked 4 productions for start.
3) Jonas produced a scout on T11.

I'm not sure what for that scout is; orcish scouts are almost useless as they're so slow and there's no animals (no wolf riders for you!). Knowning that our enemies have 2 flatland tiles make Cardith (me) very happy... that only makes things easier to deal with .

Enemy also have researched Calendar and they also have Agriculture and Exploration (from start).

On T13 (no pictures) I found that Jonas grew his capital to size 2 (increased power of 1k) - still no worker though. Both Lanun and Kuriotates have most likely produced workers by now.

[Kragroth]

Chapter 9

Kragroth awakens and demands a report from Renagade Hill

Kragroth: Have we seen Hannah's scout?!!
Orc Captain Nogrith: No chief
Kragroth: Darn it! She must have went North! We've got to catch that sea hag scout! I cannot have her ravaging about our territories! Nogrth, go get me Tasunke!
Orc Captain Nogrith: Yes Chief!
After several minutes of impatient waiting Tasunke arrives in the War Room
Tasunke: You know Kragroth we gotta work on these orders of yours. We're co-rulers remembers?
Kragroth: Yes, yes fine human. Look, how do you propose we catch this tentacled scout?
Tasunke pulls out a map with writing on it



Tasunke: I'll move up my scout and warrior ahead there to get a cross on her bearings. If we can, we'll aim to get the warrior and scout in position to both attack Hannah on the same turn. Barring that, we will try to make her scout force a retreat back the way she came or towards your territory. After which point you'll have a second warrior. You'll use both of your warriors to attack her after which she'll be defeated.
Kragroth: As good a plan as any. And while we're here, could you explain your earlier report? How do you know Jonas made extra scout and how do you know evil Cardith and Hannah settled on flat land? How you know she not settle on grassland hill?
Tasunke: Um, sorry Kragroth that intel was collected by Cardith's follwers.
Tasunke cups his hands to his mouth
Tasunke: Hey Cardith! Can you explain your report please! How did you figure all of that out!

[Aurorarcher]

Oh, crap! Yes, it's possible that they settled on grassland hills which would end up giving 2 hammers (with palace).

So the conclusions I made should be edited to:

1) Lanun and Kuriotates settled on either flatland or grass hills. I think the latter is more unlikely though.

[Kragroth]

Chapter 10

Kragroth looks upon the latest info Map and thinks to himself:



Kragroth: Was I too eager? Too impatient? The enemy is right around where I expected her to be.
Kragroth sighs
Kragroth: The enemy just took a little bit longer to get there. Now we must reassess.
Kragroth summons his allies once again to the war room
Kragroth: Allies, I apologize. I may have failed you. I may have departed our original plan too early. As a result Hannah's scout may remain at large for yet longer.
Cardith shakes his head
Cardith: There's a few too many maybes for use to pass judgement. Who knows how the scout would have moved if not for the Hippus Scout Presence? Besides, look at the map. It's unlikely that she'll move past the Hippus Scout now.
Tasunke: Exactly. Look. Our moves will now depend on her scout. We will counter them as best we can. At least we now know where the scout is and can react!
Kragroth: Let's plot out on the map the possible outcomes
Kragroth, Cardith, and Tasunke begin drawing



Tasunke: The Red Dots are the possible move locations of Hannah's scout with position 1 and position 2 most likely.
Cardith: Our logic is that Hannah's scout will logically try to avoid the stronger Hippus scout and keep distance while exploring enemy territory.
Tasunke: If Hannah is arrogant and moves nearby the Hippus Scout not being concerned with the difference between aggressive, and moves to position 2, the Hippus scout can attack first followed by the orc warrior if necessary.
Cardith: However, if Hannah's scout moves to position 1 we have a minor dilemma. The orcs must move last. Either, the Hippus scout moves 2 in a direction of their choice and hopes that the roughly 73% chance of victory for the orc warriors attacking a forest pans out, or the Hippus let go their war cry spell, suddenly get three movement and attack the Lanun Scout. If for some reason the Warcry scout lost, the orc warrior would be sure to win.
Tasunke: Of course, I hate to spend my Warcry so early. I really want to use it near when it's time to fully attack my enemies!
Kragroth: That's a hard decision. What happens if the enemy moves to position 1 and the scout doesn't use warcry and we don't risk our warrior failing
Cardith: Our enemy gets unfettered access to seeing and disrupting your territory. It'll be hard for your workers to do their jobs
Kragroth: Perhaps the Hippus scout can protect them.
Tasunke: I can protect them and move with them sure, but of course, that sea bitch may think it's worth the risk to attack my scout and your worker. There's only a small margin of advantage for an aggressive scout on flatland
Kragroth: ARRGGH!
Cardith: That being said, she has only one scout at the moment. She will likely not stay long around your city and that will give us an opportunity to thwart her scout again.
Kragroth: Yes and that gives more opportunity to harass you two. I'd much rather the scout mess with the orc economy than the Hippus or the Kuriorate. Your lands are richer than mine.
Cardith: We'll have to decide together if it's worth a warcry or not should the scout move to position 1.
Tasunke: on an interesting note, if the scout moves to position 3 and further towards the inlet, we may have an opportunity to ambush.
Kragroth: Yes, intercept the scout and engage when possible. Let's talk again about if we have to use a War Cry or not.

[Eclipse]

Tasunke: if this is an inland sea this is a chase and two warrior like units are moving in from the opposite direction, or that's what I would have done.
Kragroth: It's possible
Tasunke: I can move my warrior into your city and you can advance with yours, a scout doesnt have the strength to take a city, he might possibly be able to pillage something but he must start "the" war and this might not be to his team's liking.
Kragroth: Go on
Tasunke: it is a reasonable guess that he does not fear my scout and will continue toward my city. This is meant to occupy us while something stronger moves in from the South.