[SPOILERS] Donovan Zoi: Ikhanda-Making Mehmed (with AdrienIer)

[Donovan Zoi]

Welcome to Donovan Zoi's spoiler thread!

I am playing as Mehmed II of the Zulus.

Next two days will be busy for me, but I will try to keep you posted on things as they happen. It will be my first RB game starting from the beginning, so it should be interesting.

[SevenSpirits]

[Donovan Zoi]

Let the games begin!

The snake pick has just begun and I have chosen the Zulus. Here's why:

1. The Zulus start off with Agriculture and Hunting, which will allow me to tech RtR bargain Archery when needed. I'll also be prepared to farm the Rice when the time comes.

2. The UB [Ikhanda] will help with maintenance. I am not sure if it will bump up to 70h because of the new Barracks cost. but I am holding out hope that an Aggressive leader will still be available for me (I have the second to last pick in Round 2) to cut that cost in half. I'll have to see what leaders are left at that point, and if a better non-AGG leader is still available for me.

3. The UU [Impi] looks like it might come in handy from the terrain I see so far.

Opening Strategy

Scout - First move will be to go 2NW over the Rice. That should give me some good visibility of the region.

Tech - Fishing > Archery (possibly flipped but I doubt it). Then either the BW path to search for metal for my Impis or Monarchy to adopt HR since my capital is food heavy and I'll need to balance that with happiness. My opening techs don't give any breaks for either, so I will look at this further once the game starts.

Builds - Scout > Warrior > Fishing Boat, then a couple workers once I hit Size 3-4. I'll have to see how that times out though.

Settlement - Settling in place.

With early Archery, I may bunker down and go the supercity route by building a bunch of Archers in my capital and pairing it the HR civic. Then going on a city building spree once I can build Settlers in 4-5 turns. But that will change if my enemies start grabbing territory fast, or the surrounding territory proves me foolish to consider this option.

I don't plan on causing any trouble early on, but you never know.....

About Me

Several of you may know me from the role I played in the Apolyton ISDG, where I took over Poly's own Team Banana and eventually forged friendship with the Realms team for our mutual benefit. This was great for RB, which ended up winning the game when rival PAL forfeited the game due to my take down of the PAL capital with RB's tactical assistance.

It remains to be seen what I can accomplish without a deficit of 100 wasted turns, especially since the early game has never really been my strong suit. I consider myself to be an "instinct" player, so you may not see the intricate calculations you see in other threads. I'll still try to give you my thoughts on the game as best I can.

Lastly, I am not particularly humorous or vulgar, so if that is your thing then I apologize in advance. I am a bit curious what is going on in Krill's and Commodore's threads that makes them so popular, so if anyone can give me any pointers without disclosing anything vital then I can work on blowing this thread up in a similar manner.

[Fintourist]

Good luck DZ. May I ask what encouraged you to join a game here?

Did I understand correctly that you plan to build a 2nd scout and a warrior before you move towards improving resources? That sounds like taking a major hit to your growth curve, but with huts on a 2nd scout might indeed be interesting.

Commodore's thread is probably popular as he has a strong reputation as an entertaining reporter, check e.g. his PB8 or PB13 thread if you want to look more into that. Krill gets read both because he is a controversial person and considered one of the strongest players around.

[AdrienIer]

Hi, do you mind if I dedlurk you ? I've read some of the threads already but it was mostly stuff about traits.

Ikhanda is 60h, which means 30h with agg. I hope you won't miss out on agg, which enhances both your UU and UB.

If you're going for this strange archery->monarchy route missing on pottery will you try for an early religion ? Or wonder ? This map gives a lot of territory per player, meaning that ikhandas will be even more useful but there probably won't be much early fighting.

[Donovan Zoi]

Good luck DZ. May I ask what encouraged you to join a game here?

I have been wanting to play a full game here since taking over for slowcheetah in RB20. Also, I am a fan of the RB community since the ISDG game and wanted to play among the best and learn along the way.

Did I understand correctly that you plan to build a 2nd scout and a warrior before you move towards improving resources? That sounds like taking a major hit to your growth curve, but with huts on a 2nd scout might indeed be interesting.

That's my original thought, but I did also say that the early game is my most sketchy. I may go for a worker once my capital hits Size 2, but yeah I do tend to lean on Scouts almost to a fault in the early game (for huts and intel). I probably won't make a decision until I can see the actual game.

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Hi, do you mind if I dedlurk you ?

Not at all! But I have never gotten a definition of "dedlurk," which I'll bet is short for "dedicated lurker." But what is the difference between lurking and dedlurking? Either way, I am game. Besides, I think I remember you from CivFanatics as I used to participate in the Democracy Games over there when they were popular.

Also, let me know if I got these definitions right:

Smurf - Experienced player posing as a newbie in MP games.
Nerf - To purposefully remove something for game balance.

If you're going for this strange archery->monarchy route missing on pottery will you try for an early religion ? Or wonder ? This map gives a lot of territory per player, meaning that ikhandas will be even more useful but there probably won't be much early fighting.

Once again, just my initial thoughts since I don't know the tech tree by heart like most around here. Regarding religion, it depends how many players have Mysticism as their starting techs. I am already kind of kicking myself for not going with the Aztecs and getting Hunting/Mysticism to go for that early religion, along with having the Sacrificail Altar to offset the Slavery nerf (how'd I do?). But I am glad I chose to have early Agri/Fishing considering my starting resources. My goal is no later that CoL for a religion.

I usually don't consider early Wonders because of the competition, but with 5 Hills in my radius I would be foolish not to do so. TBD, but that early worker is looking better and better.

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Thanks to you both for your questions! And feel free to keep asking them, because I will definitely take everying under advisement.

[AdrienIer]

Dedlurking means that I don't read other people's threads so I can give you deeper advices without foreknowledge. If you're in a race for a wonder I won't know if someone else is going for it too and how close this person is to completion, that way if I tell you to whip it to completion 2 turns earlier it would be legitimate advice. A smurf is a player using an alias to enter a game, usually it's a good player that wants to avoid getting dogpiled because of his reputation. And a nerf is a change to the game made to lower the efficiency of a too powerful part of the game. Like with slavery which is far less efficient now. A buff is the opposite of a nerf.

The main thing I've spotted is that you're thinking of beelining monarchy while having two calendar resources in your cap's BFC, which cries for beelining calendar. Why not even aim at the MoM ? Golden ages will be strong on this huge map. That would mean playing a great opening and being strong in GNP.

With 11 players religions are hard to get but if you do found one it usually grows fast, making its shrine an enormous boost. But you do have ikhandas for culture even if you miss out on them. What traits do you like most ? The new balance makes them all useful so it's a matter of what kind of game you want to play.

[Mardoc]

But what is the difference between lurking and dedlurking?

You're right, it's dedicated lurker. The main difference is that us regular lurkers are strongly discouraged from posting anything that might be non-neutral, for fear of leaking information from other threads. In practice, that means we can answer direct questions on game mechanics, and sometimes comment on decisions that are already past, and that's about all. Sometimes we'll make exceptions for greens games, but that usually prompts a three-page debate. (well, and general lurkers also advocate for war, but you're expected to know we don't have your best interests in mind when we do that).

A dedlurker is allowed to say anything they want. Since they don't have any spoiler info, they can't leak it. Basically considered to be on your team, but not in charge. The line between dedlurker and teammate is fuzzy and depends on the people involved, really.

The basic idea is to keep this a safe place to report your games. We don't want to risk anyone getting a disadvantage by telling lurkers about their plans for a surprise attack, or anything else along those lines. It's probably overkill, but the game is for the players. Lurkers just have to accept a little bit of inconvenience as a result.

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks to you both for the explanation. That seems to make sense under the circumstances, while allowing open forums for the regular lurkers to follow along with the whole game if they desire. With that said, welcome AdrienIer! I look forward to your advice.

I'll post a more detailed response to Adrien's latest post soon. My top traits for now are Aggressive (natch), Organized (hello gpt!) and Expansive (1/2 price Market and Grocer? Nice!). Depending on what leaders are left available, I may also consider Financial, Spiritual and Industrious. Can't go wrong with Philosophical and Creative either, but I like the building discounts of the other traits better. Imperialistic, Protective, and Charismatic are out of the question for this game.

wetbandit has chosen Julius Caesar, who is Organized and Imperialistic. But I just loaded the mod and only counted 9 Agressive leaders, so I am not out of the woods just yet! I'll post my favorite leaders tonight, as well as get a good look a the RtR tech tree so I can work on researching with some synergy.

[Donovan Zoi]

OK, it's official. I am playing as Mehmed II of the Zulus!



After all my talk about the Aggressive trait, I ended up choosing a leader with Expansive/Organized. Let me explain:

1. It was hard to turn down a chance to cut the build time on a whopping 7 buildings provided by this combo. The roster of buildings includes I-guess-I'll-build-it-later's like Market, Grocer, Courthouse and Aquaduct as well as Lighthouses and Harbors to support my water towns. Then cheap Factories later, should I be lucky enough survive that long.

2. 50% cheaper Civics (from Organized), paired with lower maintenance from Ikhandas and cheap Courthouses should lessen the "gpt drag" on research that usually shows up during the Classical Era.

3. Cheap builds (35%) for Workers and Workboats! Based on the advice given in this thread, I am considering making these my first two builds respectively.

4. The +2 health will be a bit excessive at first but will allow me to level the countrysides with reckless abandon. I'll need to find ways to increase my happiness so that my cities can grow nicely.

I think that the above benefits will offset my hasty Civ decision of the Zulus. I'm sure that I'll make good use of the Impi and the Ikhanda, but am still regretting that my opening techs don't match my plans to the fullest. I'll be posting more about those plans tomorrow.