AI Vs invisibility

[FrancoK]

Invisibility could be a powerful tool in the player hands.

What happens if the computer attacks a city and sees no enemy units?

Here you are some tactics:

1. All colors: If there is a wall, move the units to the city threshold.

2. All colors: Cast Disenchant Area (if AI has it)

3. Blue: Cast Disenchant (Area) True (if AI has it)

4. Black: If it has undead units or werewolves can send them to the city (Strategic move, not tactic)

5. Red: Cast Flame Strike: hits every unit, invisible or not, instantly (if AI has it)

6. Green: Cast Call Lightning : hits every unit, invisible or not, with time available (if AI has it)

7. White: if it has (Arch) Angels can send them to the city (Strategic move, not tactic)

8. Blue: if it has Sky Drake can send them to the city (Strategic move, not tactic)


What can AI do, also?

A. Send randomly the units to search for the hidden units (difficult).

B. White: Cast True Sight: allow unit(s) to see the hidden units (if AI has it) (easy)

Any other suggestion?

[Anthony]

Send units into the city and park them there until time-out, resulting in the destruction of 50% of the buildings and population of the city.

Hm. You know what would eliminate a number of exploits? After turn 25, give the player a choice between 'flee' and 'automatic combat'. Most of the 'stall until time runs out' tactics don't really make sense, it should be possible to overrun a position when the defenders refuse to engage.

[Asfex]

death - any death creature or undead have illusion immunity.


I have idea: Earth to Mud reveal invisible units in the 'Mud' region. But need a discussion about it.
Moreover , the AI cast this spell on invisible units already, So this is a bug anyway.

Also: great wyrm and djeen and unicorns can not teleport to the cell with invisible unit. hense it can see it. In my mod any precence of teleporting creature gives the ability to see invisible units, (but can not shoot to it, like precence of unit with true sight).

[Anthony]

I wouldn't mind earth to mud detecting ground-based invisible units, but it would be weird if it worked on flying or incorporeal invisible creatures. Web should maybe disable invisibility, though of course you have to detect it before you can cast.

[FrancoK]

Send units into the city and park them there until time-out, resulting in the destruction of 50% of the buildings and population of the city.

It is already done by raiders, because the want to destroy a city. On the other hand AI players want to conquer it as intact as possible.

Hm. You know what would eliminate a number of exploits? After turn 25, give the player a choice between 'flee' and 'automatic combat'. Most of the 'stall until time runs out' tactics don't really make sense, it should be possible to overrun a position when the defenders refuse to engage.

Stall is a valid tecnique, if you can't win. I'll add it to AI tactics, if possible, instead of trying to remove it.
I.E. A lone paladin attacks a cave with 8 sprites.
After wasting their shots, sprites attack the paladin and they all die with current AI.
I will prevent the sprites physical attack, thus letting them stall (and win) the combat, but I suppose it is too complex to realize.

death - any death creature or undead have illusion immunity.

Yes, is point 4.

I have idea: Earth to Mud reveal invisible units in the 'Mud' region. But need a discussion about it.

Nice idea, I rather add it to a mod.

Moreover , the AI cast this spell on invisible units already, So this is a bug anyway.

Yes, also the AI never use disenchant area (true) if there is a lone nightblade, so AI knowns it cannot be dispelled.

Also: great wyrm and djeen and unicorns can not teleport to the cell with invisible unit. hence it can see it. In my mod any presence of teleporting creature gives the ability to see invisible units, (but can not shoot to it, like presence of unit with true sight).

Very good! I'll add it to the next patch if all agrees.
If not can you tell me how implement it in my mod?

I wouldn't mind earth to mud detecting ground-based invisible units, but it would be weird if it worked on flying or incorporeal invisible creatures.

Since the mud came from a magical rain, flying creature are "wet" as well as round ones, and we can support the fact magic will let the incorporeal creature to glow as long as they stay in the muddy area. Of course it will be a presence revealed, like Asfex said before, so no shooting at .

Web should maybe disable invisibility, though of course you have to detect it before you can cast.

Very nice! I'll stay with presence revealed instead of dispelling.

[Anthony]

Stall is a valid tecnique, if you can't win.

No, it really isn't. 'Realistically', if raiders can move their entire army inside the gates, they've won and should capture the town, even if you happen to have a unit that they can't kill hiding somewhere.

[FrancoK]

Stall is a valid tecnique, if you can't win.

No, it really isn't. 'Realistically', if raiders can move their entire army inside the gates, they've won and should capture the town, even if you happen to have a unit that they can't kill hiding somewhere.

Realistically, if 2 armies in open field are too tired to fight, there is a stall.
If one army is more powerful, but the other is too fast, the latter can easily retreat.
This is how Russian won against Napoleon, fighting, but retreating (avoiding full combat), minimizing the losses, until the enemy was exhausted/without food.

And don't forget guerrilla.
You can occupy a city, but if you have enemies hitting you and you cannot find them, the city is not yours.
Powerful armies have lost to a smaller opponent using hit, run and hide technique.

But here we are in a simulation, the field is not as big as a country and the time is in turns, not hours or days, so 50 moves or there is a stall is a good compromise, IMO.

[Tiltowait]

Eh, the 50 turn limit is gamey as hell, but I like it. It's OK if I pull cheese against the computer, it's a victimless crime. Besides the conditions have to be right and it's possible to screw up if you do it wrong. Avoiding 2 War Trolls with Serena the Healer for 50 turns isn't easy.

[Asfex]

The 50 turn limit - if you try avoid fight by 1-move unit you may fight only 1-2 times in the whole combat.
It will not so dull if kyrub shall implement "done all units" button, or implement "mouse will not move to "done" " if you press "d" on keybord. like implemented keys for scrolling cities for build management in the last patch.

[FrancoK]

The 50 turn limit - if you try avoid fight by 1-move unit you may fight only 1-2 times in the whole combat.

Right! Avoid the "big" combat and live to fight another day.

It will not so dull if kyrub shall implement "done all units" button, or implement "mouse will not move to "done" " if you press "d" on keybord. like implemented keys for scrolling cities for build management in the last patch.

Both are good suggestion, maybe only the latter is easy to implement.