I'm rusty and have not played in a Pitboss or the RtR mod before, except for having some fun with a dying civilization in PBEM 64. So I'm looking forward to playing this one out.
Yeah, I read through the changelist. I am generally in favor of civics shifting to earlier in the game or having more defined niches; almost want to urge DTG to go Spiritual just to play with the new toys! (Almost, but not quite.)
For future reference, here is the change log for RtR 2.0.7.4:
(June 4th, 2016, 07:49)Old Harry Wrote: The full change log from base BTS is:
RTRmod 2.0.7.4 Wrote:Traits:
Financial: +1 commerce on all non-river tiles that have 2+ commerce. +100% production of Bank.
Expansive: +2 health per city. +35% production of Worker, Work Boat. +100% production of Market, Aqueduct, Grocer, Harbor.
Creative: +2 culture per city. +100% production of Theatre, Colosseum, Observatory.
Charismatic: +2 happiness. +1 happiness from Broadcast Tower. -25% XP needed for promotions.
Protective: Free City Garrison 1, Drill 1 promo for archery and gunpowder units. +100 production of Granary, Walls.
Imperialistic: +100% Great General emergence. +60% production of Settler. +100% production of Custom House
Aggressive: Free C1 promo for melee and gunpowder units. -25% city maintenance [Not shown in trait description. Bonus not shown in interface. Bonus is multiplicative with other maintenance modifiers. Final displayed city maintenance value is correct and includes this bonus.] +100% production of Barracks, Stable, Drydock.
Philosophical: +150% Great Person production, +100% production of University
Organized, Industrious, Spiritual: No change from BtS
Civs:
America: UU is now Minuteman a Rifleman replacement with free Guerilla 1 and Woodsman 1. Mall is now a Grocer replacement that gives +1 happy from Deer, Sugar, Hit Musicals, Hit Movies, Hit Singles.
Arabia: Starts with Mysticism/Agriculture, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Madrassa cost decreased to 70 hammers from 90.
Byzantium: Starts with Mysticism/Fishing, instead of Mysticism/The Wheel. Cataphracts are 11 strength instead of 12, and are first strike immune (like normal knights).
Carthage: Cothon cost decreased to 80 hammers from 100 (now costs same as Harbor). Numidian Cavalry changed to a HA replacement with free C1.
Celts: Dun now gives G2, not G1. Dun civilopedia updated to list unit classes that recieve G2 promotion.
France: Salon +1 free specialist, -1 free artist.
Germany: UU is now the Kanone, a Cannon that costs 80 hammers instead of 100. Assembly Plant now available at Steam Power.
Inca: Terraces now give +1 culture instead of +2. Quechua loses combat 1.
India: Starts with Mysticism/Wheel instead of Mysticism/Mining. The Fast Worker now has Mobility (-1 Terrain Movement Costs), but does not get an extra movement point compared to normal workers.
Japan: UB is now Pagoda, an Observatory replacement with +10% hammers.
Korea: Starts with Agriculture/Minging, instead of Mysticism/Mining.
Portugal: Feitoria now costs 120h, from 180h.
Rome: Praetorian changed to a Swordsman replacement with +1 strength. Forum increased to +35% GPP generation from +25%.
Russia: UB is now Research Institute, a university replacement with +1 scientist specialist.
Vikings: Trading Post: Lighthouse replacement, +25% production of naval units, cost 60 hammers, requires Sailing.
Leaders:
Kublai Khan: Leader traits are now Charismatic, Creative, changed from Aggressive, Creative.
Civics:
Police State: Available at Military Science. Medium cost. +25% production of Military Units. -50% War Weariness.
Vassalage: Now provides free support for military units as well (meaning Pacifism is cheaper), and is Medium Upkeep.
Slavery: 30h for the 1st pop, 20h for the 2nd pop and subsequent pops. So, 30/50/70/90. On Quick speed, that's 20/33/46/60.
Serfdom: +75% Worker Speed, +1h for Watermills and Windmills.
Emancipation: Available at Democracy. Low cost. +100% growth for cottage, hamlet, village. penalty for civs without.
Mercantilism: Available at Nationalism. +2 free specialists per city. Foreign trade route limit removed. Medium Upkeep.
Free Market: No longer provides -25% Corporate Costs. Now provides +25% Trade Route Yield.
Environmentalism: No longer provides +25% Corporate Costs, or +2 commerce to windmills. Provides +1 gold per specialist, +1c to farms and pastures, +2c to forest preserves, and Low upkeep. Swapped with Free Speech. Now available at Liberalism.
Free Speech: Available at Liberalism. Medium cost. +1 commerce from villages, +3 commerce from towns, +100% culture.
State property: Now Medium upkeep
Wonders, Projects:
Wonder Resource Doublers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource.
Rushmore: Now -50% WW, (from -25%).
Red Cross: 200h.
West Point: 550h, +5XP. Now requires a lvl 5 unit (17XP/13XP for Charismatic).
Great Lighthouse: Now +1 trade route instead of +2 trade routes, enabled at Masonry, but needs lighthouse and Sailing (no functional change in the tech requirements but makes F6 look less cluttered).
SoZ: no WW effect. Now +3XP, 200 hammers, no building prerequisites. No longer gets +100% production from Ivory.
The Internet: Now a wonder. 2k cost, +15% beakers in every city, +2 scientist gpp, double production speed with copper. No longer a project.
Cristo Redentur: +100% SPI production, -50% Anarchy instead of -100%.
SDI: Removed from the game
Base unit changes:
Scouts: Require no tech. Every player starts with a scout instead of a warrior.
Swordsman (and all replacements): +50% city attack
Archer (and all replacements): +30% defence against Swordsmen.
War Elephants: Now 7 str, +50% vs. Mounted units.
Trebuchet: Now requires Machinery, instead of Engineering.
SAM Infantry: 75% interception chance (up form 40%)
Destroyer: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Transport: Now enabled at Artillery (not Combustion) (requires Oil OR Uranium)
Mobile Artillery: Can now load guided Missiles and Tac Nukes (as Submarines and Missile Cruisers do). No longer require oil.
Gunships decreased to 3 moves.
ICBM: No longer unlimited range, but long enough so that they will out distance your army and navy easily, and they can be rebased. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built.
iCost: 450h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 160
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 12
iAirRange: 36
Tactical Nukes: Now S80 1shot units that can bombard units, cause collateral damage to 5 units, cannot be intercepted. Loses the nuke tag. Does not need Manhattern project to be built. Full list of changes:
iCost: 200h
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 80
iCollateralDamageLimit: 75%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 5
iAirRange: 4
Guided Missiles: Can bombard units, tiles and cultural defence, cause collateral damage to 2 units, cannot be intercepted. Full list of changes (underline means original stat, for comparison):
iCost: 60h
iBombRate: 16
iAirCombatLimit: 75
iAirCombat: 40
iCollateralDamage: 100
iCollateralDamageLimit: 50%
iCollateralDamageMaxUnits: 1
iAirRange: 4
Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) or all units reduced by 50%.
Buildings:
Barracks: increased cost to 60 hammers, +1 culture.
Jails: now -50% War Weariness.
Castles (and replacement UB): no longer decrease bombardment rate of catapults or trebuchets.
Technology:
Known tech bonus no longer scales with total player number. Scales depending on the tech era of the most advanced player in the game:
Ancient: No bonus
Classical: +2% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 30 players)
Medieval: +4% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 15 players)
Rennaissance: +6% per met player with tech, max +60% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Industrial: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Modern: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Future: +8% per met player with tech, max +80% (no further bonus after 10 players)
Hunting: Enables pastures, cost increased by 50% from 40 to 60. No longer enables camps.
Animal Husbandry: Enables camps. No longer enables pastures.
Archery: Base tech cost decreased by two thirds, from 60 to 40.
Astronomy: Requires Code of Laws as mandatory prerequisite in addition to Calendar and Optics. No longer requires Paper.
Metal Casting: Cost reduced to 300.
Alphabet: No longer enables tech trading, allows Open Borders. Cost reduced to 250.
Writing: Enables Map trading, no longer enables OB.
Paper enables Tech Trading. Requires Metal Casting as mandatory prerequisite.
Renaissance era technology prices increased by a percentage of base BtS tech cost as follows:
Education: +25%
PP: +25%
Nationalism: +25%
Gunpowder: +25%
Astronomy: +25%
Economics: +50%
Liberalism: +50%
Replaceable Parts: +50%
Military Tradition: +50%
Constitution: +50%
Chemistry: +50%
Democracy: +75%
Rifling: +75%
Corporation: +75%
Military Science: +75%
Steel: +75%
Steam Power: +75%
Artillery: +100%
Assembly Line: +100%
Scientific Method: +100%
Railroad: +100%
Cost of all subsequent techs increased by 100%
All medieval and earlier techs are untradeable:
The untradeable techs are as follows: Fishing, The Wheel, Agriculture, Hunting, Mysticism, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Animal Husbandry, Archery, Meditation, Polytheism, Masonry, Horseback Riding, Priesthood, Monotheism, Bronze Working, Writing, Metal Casting, Iron Working, Aesthetics, Mathematics, Alphabet, Monarchy, Compass, Literature, Calendar, Construction, Currency, Machinery, Drama, Engineering, Code of Laws, Feudalism, Optics, Music, Philosophy, Civil Service, Theology, Divine Right, Paper, Guilds, Banking
Espionage:
Spies now spawn with "Secretive", and cannot see tiles except the one they're standing on.
The No Espionage game option now works properly:
GSpy points are converted into Great Merchant points.
Espionage no longer gets converted into culture.
Cultural expansion now happens at normal values.
Spies cannot be built.
Graphs are always visible on contact.
Tile Changes:
Lumber Mills: Available at Machinery. +1 hammer, +1 commerce, +1 commerce from river (not corner plots)
Watermills: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Rep Parts.
Workshops: +1 base hammers, no longer receives +1h at Chemistry.
Mines: +1h at Rep Parts.
Quarry: +1h at Rep Parts.
Whaling Boats: Enabled at Sailing, not Optics. Otherwise unchanged.
Game Mechanics:
The Draft: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft. A city must now end a draft at size 6 instead of size 5 (So size 8 to draft a rifle, size 7 to draft a musket).
Corporations: Completely removed from the game.
Culture required to achieve legendary border pop on Quick Speed changed from 25000 to 33000
Events:
The following events have been removed from the game:
Negative Events:
1. Forest Fire
5. Washed out
10 Careless apprentice
11. Famine
12. Slave revolt
15. Farm Bandits
18. Fugitive
19. Pestilence
21. Faux Pas
22. Joyous Wedding
23. Wedding Feud
24. Left at the Altar
26. Tornado
29. Looters
30. Brothers in need
31. Hurricane
32. Cyclone
33. Tsunami
34. Monsoon
35. Blizzard
36. Volcano
37. Dust Bowl
42. Clunker Coal
43. Sour crude
50. Mining accident
52. SetbackS
54. Great depression
55. Bermuda triangle
70. Influenza
71. Solo Flight
77. Ancient olympics
78. Modern olympics
80. Earth day
92. Cigarette Smoker
93. Heroic Gesture
94. Great Mediator
99. The Huns
100. The Vandals
101. the Goths
102. The Philistines
103. The Vedic Aryans
104. Holy ritual
132. Spoiled grain
135. Industrial fire
155. Slave revolt warning
160. Defecting agent
161. Jail
162. Spy discovered
163. Nuclear protests
165. Broken Dam
169. Toxcatl
170. Dissident Priest
172. Rogue station
174. Impeachment
Remove (Too good):
9. Hymns and sculptures
20. Marathon
28. Bards tale
64. Federal reserve
139. Partisans
167. Golden Buddha
Coastal Blockade now has a range of 1 square around the blockader, instead of 3 squares.
AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), Religious victory, and Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.
Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).
Hut techs: Can only gain techs from the first three rows of the tech screen:
Toroidal maps: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.
Maximum number of players is now 40, up from 18.
Included additional bug fixes:
Trade route turn order bug.
Foreign trade route cities lost permanently when your city using those routes is destroyed (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Build culture double production.
Build wealth/research/culture + production automation double production.
Proposed trades including cities, where the cities no longer exist to be trades, are not cancelled (note: I consider this a bug because proposed trades are already cancelled if a player lacks the requisite e.g. resources/gold. could be considered not a bug).
Production decay counter on a type of build (e.g. axeman) is not reset after completing one if the next item in the queue is of the same type (fix is taken from BTS unofficial patch).
Feature growth/disappearance rates, and bonus discovery (mine pop) rates, do not scale with game speed.
Diplomacy Pausing: Diplomacy windows do not occur on game login whilst the game is paused.
Autosaves: Autosaves are generated at login and log out; log out saves are saved to a folder specified within the global defines XML file. Default location is C:\temp.
Observer mode
Observer mode is enabled and functional. Requires pitboss logging enabled, and for the host to run the observer program. Observer mode is then accessible at a preset web address. Only available in Pitboss, additional server side applications required for functionality, available from teh following links.
Focusing on the traits, and understanding that the map/settings/start will change things, it looks to me like Imperialistic and Organized are top tier; Aggressive is slightly below, but doesn't' seem to synergize brilliantly with Organized (if I understand the multiplicative maintenance mechanics correctly). Expansive/Charismatic/Protective/Spiritual/Financial all look okay. In a Pitboss, I think Industrious and Philosophical are probably a tier above these (not sure). Creative looks a bit janky to me, now that the Library production bonus has been removed and Barracks provide an alternative source of culture.
With RtR Slavery nerfs, hammers are harder to come by. With RB maps, land is almost always unequivocally worth grabbing. So, if we can pick early in the snake pick, I think we should grab Julius Caesar or Genghis Khan. Both offer lots of free hammers and economic advantages. If we are lower down in the draft, we might need to think harder about our leader/civ synergy (getting a good civ might be the way to go).
Agreed that AGG/ORG is a redundant pairing. While ORG's base bonus lowers civic maintenance rather than city maintenance and so doesn't overlap with AGG, Courthouses do overlap and therefore get less-than-full value. I do like AGG for turning Barracks into Monuments, though.
PBEM74B is giving me a new respect for the power of PHI, and it's even stronger in RTR than BTS. Regarding Industrious, remember that it got stealth buffed because resource doublers are all +50% instead of +100 -- depending on where we are in the pick order, it's something to keep in mind.
I think FIN is likely to be weak because of the general lushness of maps -- if your land is heavily rivered, the trait becomes relatively weaker, and it's my understanding that map scripts correlate rivers with grasslands. Depending on how handmade the map is, though, we might see ample riverless grassland, in which case FIN would rise in my estimation.
IMP is sexy and I really want to play with it (though +60%? dammit, my fussiness would go to a new level, trying to make settler-producing base hammers multiples of 5). I like JC and Temujin as starting possibilities, with a slight preference for the Khan of Khans.
One really important question that might make or break our thread, though: what's your naming scheme going to be?
(June 8th, 2016, 11:59)picklepikkl Wrote: Regarding Industrious, remember that it got stealth buffed because resource doublers are all +50% instead of +100 -- depending on where we are in the pick order, it's something to keep in mind.
Yep, that's why I elevated it a bit in my estimation, especially when playing in a Pitboss where there's much more competition for wonders. OTOH, fail gold has been nerfed and I wonder if getting a hammer discount on wonders is somewhat negated by the fact that the economic traits (Org/Fin/Aggressive/Philosophical) would let you get to the requisite wonder techs sooner? I mean, for the ancient wonders Industrious is nice and all, but the longer the game goes on the further Industrious is going to fall behind if you can't balance expansion with grabbing something powerful early on like the Colossus or Mids and snowballing.
(June 8th, 2016, 11:59)picklepikkl Wrote: One really important question that might make or break our thread, though: what's your naming scheme going to be?
I'm not sure, actually. Do you have any suggestions?
I was half-thinking about picking some vintage Warhammer special characters, because I used to play ~20 years ago and some of the names are kinda fun. (Grotsnag, Gwercus, Nurglitch...) and I like the models. But I'm not committed to it or anything.
So my current plan for PBEM74D, assuming that happens (the idea was floated that after A and B wrapped up, the top 2 players for each game would go on to a winners' bracket, and the others would fight for a chance to regain some lost honor) is "embarrassing pop songs I like," but that's not really a theme transferable to just anyone. Warhammer special characters are entirely outside my oeuvre, so I can't really judge (the only thing I know about Warhammer Fantasy is that they recently revamped the setting and my friends who care are very disgruntled), but I definitely like the idea of cities named after cool, relatively-obscure characters from a neat intellectual property. (Alas I, uh, know hardly anything about you other than that you've won a lot of PBEMs at RB and were looking for a dedlurker, so it's hard to suggest properties where our interests overlap)
Regarding Industrious: I worry about the winner's curse inherent in wonder builds in this sort of game. On the other hand, RTR boosts the "hammer economy" tile improvements, so cheaper Forges is a non-negligible boost. I think that, in general, I'd prefer pairing a pro-expansion trait with a pro-economy trait unless we're near last to pick leaders and there's very little Industrious in the game.
This game has Barbs on, doesn't it? Charismatic might be nice for faster Heroic Epic and the ability to stack up a really awesome capital, depending on what our starting BFCs look like.
![[Image: 4ae.jpg?dl=1]](https://www.dropbox.com/s/od8a77mxbh04fj7/4ae.jpg?dl=1)
![[Image: Gt%2Baiming%2Bfor%2B60%2Bfps%2Bgt%2Bnot%...4.jpg?dl=1]](https://www.dropbox.com/s/95j0zovkao42j4r/Gt%2Baiming%2Bfor%2B60%2Bfps%2Bgt%2Bnot%2Beven%2Btrying%2Bto%2B_07afe010d3551d598b695397fc4cb5f4.jpg?dl=1)
![[Image: cd3.jpg?dl=1]](https://www.dropbox.com/s/aybavlitiymp4du/cd3.jpg?dl=1)
![[Image: Casual-Gamers-Ruining-Gaming-00.jpg?dl=1]](https://www.dropbox.com/s/sxlsq5cj6q4teub/Casual-Gamers-Ruining-Gaming-00.jpg?dl=1)
penalty for civs without.