Initial contact

[Seravy]

One thing that eluded my attention, and might be considered fixing in a future unofficial patch is the following behavior :

When the human player makes first contact with a wizard, that wizard is already available on the magic screen for diplomacy.
However, at the end of that turn, the greeting triggers, and resets the treaty status, so if any treaty was formed, it disappears. Even if the player talked to the wizard, the greeting happens anyway.
I'm not sure which of these would be an appropriate solution :

-Greeting works the same but no longer cancels treaties. (easy)
-The wizard does not show up on the Magic screen until after the greeting is done. (most likely easy)
-The wizard shows up but if clicked, instead of being able to do anything, the player only gets to read the greeting message, the same way how it's not possible to conduct diplomacy if the AI wizard queued any other message for that turn (like a warning or compliment). (might be hard)
-If the player talks to the wizard, cancel the greeting (idk, maybe easy maybe hard)

Also, I'm wondering if discussions about bugs should go here or the insecticide subforum.

[Al_Al]

-Greeting works the same but no longer cancels treaties. (easy)

Sounds like reasonable solution.

[spottedshroom]

What about the greeting happens mid-turn as soon as contact happens?

[Seravy]

What about the greeting happens mid-turn as soon as contact happens?

That's not very doable. Quite a few of things can initiate contact. (units moving, spells)

[Anthony]

I think the sensible way of understanding this is that your diplomatic relations start when one or the other wizard gets in contact -- so if you decide to talk immediately, that's when diplomacy starts.

When are the initial diplomacy numbers set, though? If I talk to someone before contact has been made, will I get the wrong diplomacy modifiers, and will my actions that might modify diplomacy get erased?

[Seravy]

I think the sensible way of understanding this is that your diplomatic relations start when one or the other wizard gets in contact -- so if you decide to talk immediately, that's when diplomacy starts.

When are the initial diplomacy numbers set, though? If I talk to someone before contact has been made, will I get the wrong diplomacy modifiers, and will my actions that might modify diplomacy get erased?

From the code side, diplomatic relations start as soon as units (or scouting spells) make contact with the other wizard. Doing so enables any form of diplomatic interaction for either side.
However, and this is where it gets problematic, greeting is done in this order :
1. Player's turn (during which contact MIGHT be made.)
2. All AI wizard's turns (during which contact MIGHT be made.)
3. various unrelated end of turn effects
4. If contact exist between the human player and any AI wizard, and a greeting hasn't been sent from that wizard, and there was no Declaration of War yet between them then mark the wizard as "greeting needed" and clear any treaties between them - no other diplomacy parameter is affected here. If there was a DoW then set "greeting needed" only but do not clear the "war treaty".
5. Conduct diplomacy between AI players
6. If "greeting needed" is set and neither wizard is banished, replace whichever message was set for that turn with the greeting and mark "greeting done". Any other consequences of the message that does not get shown still happens (relation change, declaration of a war). If either wizard is banished, clear message and do nothing. Otherwise proceed to usual AI to human diplomacy decisions to see if anything needs to be said to the player
7. The message (greeting or otherwise) shows up on the player's screen for all Ai wizards in the order of their turn.

I see only two problems here :
-If a war starts, the DoW message will be replaced by the greeting as far as I can tell - but the war is not cancelled. Probably should skip greeting in this case altogether? Need to test in game.
-if a treaty was made before the greeting, it is cancelled. (but not between AI players who do not greet each other)

I'll start a game and check the DoW.
Edit : confirmed, if you attack and take a city before the greeting to start a war, a normal greeting is shown instead of the appropriate message.

[Anthony]

Hm. Would it be possible to have the greeting show up immediately the first time you initiate diplomacy, if no greeting has previously been sent?

[Seravy]

Hm. Would it be possible to have the greeting show up immediately the first time you initiate diplomacy, if no greeting has previously been sent?

Doable but probably much harder than other solutions (and if there isn't enough free space to squeeze it the appropriate place then impossible)

[Anthony]

Hm. Would it be possible to have the greeting show up immediately the first time you initiate diplomacy, if no greeting has previously been sent?

Doable but probably much harder than other solutions (and if there isn't enough free space to squeeze it the appropriate place then impossible)

Probably not worth the trouble then.

[Al_Al]

Would it be possible to make so that in case of war the DoW message will be shown instead of the greeting message?