Old Harry explores Old Egypt [complete]

[Old Harry]

This is a work in progress - I've only got to turn 160 at time of writing, but I've run into so many odd and annoying questions that I thought some RBers might be able to answer. I never played Civ5 or any of its brood so these may be obvious to you guys.

As to what I think of the game so far: I recently had a go at vanilla Civ4 and found that more annoying than the current version of Civ6 so with patches and mods I think the game has a promising future. I'm enjoying things generally, but the first patch/usability mods can't come soon enough.

Lets get down to business: We're Egypt, so foreign trade routes give +4 gold and we get 15% more production building wonders and districts by rivers. Not sure what the Chariot Archer or Sphinx do because the intro screen would rather tell us a whole bunch of flavour instead.


Next post will have the first fifty turns.

[Old Harry]

Turn 1
We start with a settler and a warrior. I move the warrior to get a better view and check the lenses to see if they'll help make my decision for me. Apparently the mountains are "too close to city" so we can't settle on them . The best tile around seems to be the Sugar, so I see a couple of options to use up desert hills (is that a good thing?) - delaying settling by two turns should be paid back when that tile falls under my culture.


The only other useful lense shows us that we'll be on the border of two continents. Does that mean something for trade? Do we want Teddy Roosevelt to be on the other continent? Anyway that Jade looks nice too, but I want to settle for the Sugar and all those floodplains.


Turn 3
Ra-Kedet is founded! It'll grow in five turns and is making 1.4 culture. I think that means the first border pop (for the sugar?) will be in 10/1.4 = 7.1 turns = turn 11? It'd be nice if the game told you how much culture you've accumulated .  . Starting with a scout might be the best move - tile improvements seem less powerful and huts and and city states are important, right? But without much production I could be making a mistake failing to get the early builder...


Turn 5
A barb scout! I saw the previews about how you shouldn't let these guys live, so lets fight!


Turn 8
The scout ran away and the warrior gave ineffectual chase. Ra-kedet grows and we're visited by a different scout. That's bad right? We're a long way from rush-buying another warrior, so do I bring our other warrior back for safety? Okay, but only after I pop a hut.

Turn 10
And the hut gives us a Splinter of the True Cross! I have no idea what a great work is or what they are for. Apparently this one is making 4 faith and 8 tourism for me . Is this the equivalent of popping Bronze Working from a hut or does everyone get a relic early on?


Borders popped a turn early thanks to the city growing to size 2 and I also got a message that we've discovered the continent that I mentioned earlier. Keep up CivVI . Next border pop should be 1.7*3=5 + 2.05*5=10 = 15 culture = turn 20. I'd like the stone, but I don't know how the game figures that out and its not telling.

Turn 12
Pottery is in, Mining next in case we get the stone in borders soon.

Turn 13
I'm struggling to make out what's going on with the normal view, especially hills, but strategy view doesn't show units very well either, so I'm not entirely happy with either. That barb scout is back, injured, so I'll use our newly finished scout to hurt him some more. Its a bit annoying that you can't see how injured enemy units are.


Turn 15
Met Rome, Zulu and a city state - Zanzibar.

Turn 16
Start on Foreign Trade to start getting some income from our new neighbours.

Turn 17
We need to found a pantheon. I've heard good things about Desert Folklore from T-Hawk's Civ5 reports, but I really want to get some more production for our start and with floodplains everywhere Lady Of The Reeds And Marshes seems like a good idea. Nice to get a boost towards Mysticism too.


My scout finally gets to kill that barb scout and we get 40 gold from the tribal village.


Turn 20
Borders popped to the stone and a tribal village gave us a boost toward Mil Trad. And the warrior finally killed the scout he's been chasing since turn five .


Turn 21
Crater lake. Looks like we could make a lot of faith here.


Turn 22
Met Teddy Roosevelt. He's on the other continent, so warmongering ahoy!

Turn 24
The capital hits size five, too many for the luxuries and one off the housing cap. This does odd things to the growth formula. It would be a bit less obtuse to have the housing cap be the number where it starts to gimp your growth wouldn't it?

Turn 25
Foreign Trade is in and I use the money I've been stockpiling to buy a Trader. It'll head to Zanzibar first to fulfil their quest and get us 9gpt. I've uncovered a lot of resources, desert, and the American capital already.


Turn 28
With all the cash rolling in and the population growing I bought the rice and a hill forest tile. The builder will use his last charge on the Sugar, then we'll need another one. A monument just finished, so a Granary should let us keep growing for a bit longer.


Turn 31
Hooked sugar allowing growth to resume.

Turn 34
Barbs are getting busier, so I've built a couple more warriors and bought a slinger. Anyone know the formula for gaining XP? Lots of my fights are just yielding 1XP...

Turn 35
Met Victoria. She's north of the Americans.

Turn 37
Lost a slinger to a warrior . I adopted a policy that gives +50% to building settlers, why doesn't the city interface make any mention of that at all?

Turn 44
My scout was about to die so I deleted him and got a load of cash which allowed me to buy my second builder who built a Sphinx (this might be way too late for a second builder, but they just don't seem to improve tiles that much given how much they cost - although the Sphinx does seem great for a new city - meaning you don't need to build a monument). Ra is at the housing cap (looks like I didn't build that granary after all) so newly-founded Swenett gets the 5-food sugar tile for a jump-start.


Turn 49
Discovered Mysticism and Astrology, not entirely sure why I went for those, except perhaps to prevent myself wasting eurekas. They do allow me to start the Pyramids (then switch straight to a builder). I also founded city three in the teeth of a hoard of barb slingers.

[Old Harry]

Turns 50-100

Turn 64
Mvemba complains that we hadn't spread our (non-existent) religion to him. And we built the Pyramids - I've been keeping a few builders with one shot around to see if they benefit from the Mids. They do .


Turn 68
Roosy declares a surprise war due to my settling too close. He hasn't made a move yet, but I've got plenty of cash to buy units if needed and can clear this forest to hurry a slinger. Moving my warrior closer reveals a chariot and a warrior so I'll buy another warrior just in case.


Turn 83
A painful 15 turns later I finally bring up a battering ram and take Baltimore from the Yankee aggressor. It comes with some nice horsies too, which will come in handy. If I can hold off the Barbarian threat. I'm starting to see why 1upt pissed some folks off so badly.


Turn 89
Roosy keeps offering peace deals, but he won't negotiate to let me keep Baltimore, so we'll keep fighting...

Turn 91
Finished my first Industrial Zone and started the second.

[Old Harry]

Turns 100-150

Turn 101
Captured Washington and removed the American menace from the game. There are a lot of English units around the city too and we're not great friends, so its possible that things won't get all peaceful now.


Turn 105
I got bored waiting for the Prophet bucket to fill, so I purchased one and founded Lionism (it seems odd that the price of great people varies with how much you've invested, but units and buildings dont). Bought a bunch of missionaries with faith and started trying to convert all our cities. I felt like I was still lacking production so Lionism's beliefs give +1% cogs for each follower in a city and lets you create a meeting house (+3 faith, +2 cogs).


Turn 123
Fairly peaceful for 20 turns, I've just got my first great general and a merchant and a scientist should be along soon. Lots of industrial zones going up and I'm starting Petra because I heard its good. Rome has been gathering spears on my eastern border for ages, but we're on good terms, so I'm not sure what that's about. Japan has been sending me lots of Buddhists, but Lionism is my dominant religion.


I started building this Aqueduct when I first conquered Washington and switched to complete something else, when I came back to it the time remaining had jumped hugely and I seem to be at -79/194 cogs. Any ideas?


Turn 124
Crash to desktop! First one I've had, which isn't bad going for a new game on a sub-specced machine.

Turn 126
My exploring slinger has turned into a boat. I knew the builders could do that, but can any unit do it? Can they fight at sea? Perplexing...


Turn 127
What are you doing Trajan? You like me so much you just want to be near?


Turn 128
I've got the GP points to claim an Engineer. Is there any benefit to passing? Also why does it tell me its the end of turn when some units have a portion of their movement left, so that when I click end turn and go off to make tea I come back and it hasn't got to the next turn. It doesn't even zoom to the right place . That's more annoying than the unit cycling thing. Civ4's version (units with orders carry them out when the unit cycling gets to them) worked much better.

Turn 129
Burnt Isidore of Miletus on Petra, construction time is down to 78 turns now!


Turn 130
Hang on, Isidore is still around. Do great engineers have multi-charges too?


Turn 134
Declared war on Mvemba, then killed a catapult and a chariot while moving my handful of knights into his land. I also claimed a great writer and then realised I have no idea where to put a great work. (One of these actions obviously pissed off Qin, Victoria, Saladin and Hojo Tokimune, who all denounced me next turn.)


Turn 137
Took the Kongo capital, which allows us to build more trade routes. I think the Seoul quest was to do with building libraries rather than that they were so happy with the conquest. The Knights are going to heal up and then push on.


Turn 139
Plundered my first trade route for 60 gold while setting up the next attack.


Turn 141
The second city falls, I think he has three more to take. Is there any way to find out how many cities he has while he won't talk to me?


I also discover the white cliffs of Dover. Pretty!


I've been buying apostles with faith to drive the Buddhists and Taoists out and getting them on the run was pretty fun. I tried Evangelize Belief with a near-dead apostle and was surprised to be able to pick a new belief for Lionism. I took the item that made Missionaries and Apostles 30% cheaper. Paying an apostle to get a new belief seems powerful, but I don't think many of the other possibilities are all that good. Which should I have gone for?

Turn 143
Took Mbamba this turn and Kinchassa should fall next turn.


Turn 146
We capture Mbanza Mbata, the final Kongolese city. And spend a lot of our new spare resources paying off the other civilisations not to attack us.

[fluffyflyingpig]

GP appear in a fixed order every game, so it may be better to skip junk ones to get the ones you want.

Evangelizing, the discount and spread bonuses seem nice, as do the bonuses that give you stuff for having followers. Reduced move costs could be useful. Evangelizing when hurt or low on charges is good.

Seeing how many cities someone when they won't talk to you? What, you want a user friendly UI? That's crazytalk

[Old Harry]

Turns 150-200

Turn 152
I'm up to ten trade routes! Most of them are to the capital for 4 food/4 production, a few others are for extra production and the remainder are to build roads. Also pictured - the roll-over text for my apostles isn't smart enough to say the name of the religion?



Turn 153
I just built this as somewhere to store the books that my great writer wrote.



Did you know that the movement bonus from great generals stack? Not much use for knights who the great generals can's keep up with, but handy for letting two-movers keep up with the knights.



Turn 154
I was due to complete a catapult this turn, but researched the tech for bombards, but didn't have any nitre, so I think the game just ate the catapult.

Finished loading books into the great library.



I'm guessing I'd need 49 foreign tourists to win by culture this turn. Given how much everyone else hates me for killing America and Kongo I don't think this is an option...



Turn 157
I'm tired of England muscling in on my relationship with Zanzibar, so carpet of doom forward!



Turn 159
Took Bristol, captured a worker and should get Sheffield next turn.

Turn 160
Got Sheffield, whose harbour boosts cartography.



Turn 162
Manchester falls.



And an interesting wrinkle to religious combat - you get bonii for fighting within the radius of a city with your religion.



Turn 164
London falls and England is eliminated.



Turn 165
Everyone (except Trajan) hates me.

Turn 167
0.75 movement roads and requiring full points to make a move combined with the crappy end turn system keeps frustrating me .



Turn 168
Anyone know what a Factory does? Does it give all the cities within six tiles +3 production? Is it within six tiles of the industrial district or the city center? Do multiple factories stack when within six tiles?



Turn 172
I used an engineer to rush Mont St Michel so I can convert apostles into relics... Just to see what happens, right?



Turn 174
Got the forbidden palace for the extra government slot. Went for an extra military policy as I think domination is my best bet. I snagged the Venetian Arsenal next as someone mentioned getting two naval units for the price of one was overpowered. Its a lot of hammers up front though, so I seriously doubt it'll pay off for this game.



Turn 176
The carpet moves in on China, amusingly this provokes nine declarations of war between our various city states .



Turn 177
Took Chengdu and the city state Yerevan.



Turn 184
Another straightforward conquest without any losses means even Trajan hates me now. I stitched together the empire so you can see:
a. None of my cities is over size 13
b. I'm building Cavalry everywhere and (not visible) am irritated that I can't find a repeat build button, so every turn I'm having to scroll the list and choose that option on at least five cities.
c. I'm building those units because building any infrastructure at all in my newly acquired cities is ~20-40 turns
d. It's really hard to do a good stitch if you can't switch the interface off



Turn 188
Galileo seems like a powerful great scientist - he makes us 750 beakers...



Turn 189
Domination requires that I crush you Trajan. And really if you didn't want that you'd have built more than one city . Why haven't I lost any units since a barb warrior killed my slinger in the first 30 turns.



Turn 195
First Archaeologist move.



Which along with my Relic-producing apostles is filling the great works page nicely.



But really we're going to win this by military means, so lets rack up some more warmonger penalty (I just declared war on Japan, so I guess this doesn't really matter). Egregious eh?



Turn 196
I took Kyoto on the second turn of the war.



Turn 197
Cairo fell on the third turn and with a whimper the game is finished. At least it didn't make me go capture the other five cities that Arabia and Japan had built.



The domination video puts me in mind of recent election results .



And it turns out I've played nearly as well as Neville Chamberlain...

[Old Harry]

Analysis:

I think I'd have won pre-t150 if I'd bee-lined Knights and attacked everyone's capitals at once. It only took about four knights to take each capital so the rest was a bit of a waste. I much better understand the frustrations with the micro-management caused by 1UPT now. In all I'm a bit less impressed with the game than I was after the first fifty turns or so, I am wondering if I should have spent my money on Xcom 2 instead...

I've downloaded the CQUI mod to try and improve the interface a bit for my next game. There are a load of other things the game needs like a build queue, a way to auto-produce units, a fix to the catapult-eating tech thingy, a fix to the end-turn-units-still-to-move issue and many more, which I hope to see in a mod or a patch. Then there are things like cost scaling which seem totally artificial and opaque and the 1-upt micro-management, but I'm not sure how they could be fixed.

I already started my next game on Deity as a reaction to how rubbish the AI was in this game. I hope it'll give a decent challenge.

[Old Harry]

GP appear in a fixed order every game, so it may be better to skip junk ones to get the ones you want.

Evangelizing, the discount and spread bonuses seem nice, as do the bonuses that give you stuff for having followers.  Reduced move costs could be useful.  Evangelizing when hurt or low on charges is good.

Seeing how many cities someone when they won't talk to you?  What, you want a user friendly UI?  That's crazytalk

Thanks for the tips.

Also (as mentioned above) CQUI seems like a useful UI improvement. I'll check if it has a crazytalk setting.