[SPOILERS] GeneralKilCavalry and Irismono - Harmony Spawned from Discord

[GeneralKilCavalry]

BASIC GAME INFO TO BLOCK OUT SPOILERS FROM OTHER GAME PLAYERS.

Pick Order:
1. Superdeath
2. Commodore
3. Irismono & GeneralKilCavalry
4. Chumchu
5. Gavagai
6. Alhazard
7. Donovan Zoi
8. RegentMan


Ruleset and Information:
1) Settings:
Pangea mapscript, cylindrical wrap, Emperor level, mapsize and other settings at mapmaker's discretion.
No villages, events, vassal states, technology trading.
Normal barbs.

2) Bans:
AP resolutions, blockades, active espionage (espionage is enabled in settings but no spies can be built; no limits on Great Spies), nukes, War Elephants, city and unit gifting (including city transfer as a part of a peace treaty). No ban on GLH (should not be OP on Pangea), SoZ, Corporations.

3) Rules:
AI Diplo. No communication with other players in respect to in-game events other than offers in trade window. No use of texts, city names, unit names, numbers (specific amounts of gold) to communicate.
Otherwise, please follow etiquette rules as described in this thread: https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...p?tid=7311

4) Pick method. Point-based snakepick. Everyone is limited by five points, features are priced as follows:
4: FIN
3: EXP, CRE, India, Inca
2: SPI, IND, ORG, IMP, China.
1: PHI, Agriculture Civs
0: CHM, AGG, All other civs
-1: PRO
Picks are done blind, before seeing starting positions.

5) Player roster:
1. Alhazard
2. Chumchu
3. Superdeath
4. Commodore
5. Gavagai
6. RegentMan
7. Irismono/GeneralKilCavalry
8. Donovan Zoi

6) Mapmaker: Krill. He is supposed to roll a reasonable map, balance capitals and give everyone strategic resources. No further balancing effort is expected.



Really looking forward to my first pitboss. I've been playing civ 4 since it was released back when I was in elementary school, but have never really been a participant in much of the online multiplayer stuff, so here goes!

[Charriu]

Just curious. What does the brick in front of your thread mean?

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Just curious. What does the brick in front of your thread mean?

When you post replies/make threads you can select an icon to go with it.

[Charriu]

Of course I totally forgot about that. Most people here don't use it.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Hannibal was definitely one of our top picks, Irismono had suggested him and he seemed to be a really good option to have the ability to pick an agri civ.

For leader traits, we're still throwing out various ideas:
1. Elizabeth paired with a non-agricultural civ is one option. This would be a dev heavy play, mimicking the early academy of Spullla's RB2.
2. Wan Kon would give us financial but with some strategic flexibility and the nice whip overflow from walls (protective is bad, but it can be leveraged a bit) We would get the flexibility to choose China or any agricultural civ.
3. Ragnar I think will be the pick of whatever team comes before us, it is just such a strong pick. If it is left for us, I will seriously consider it.

In choosing between EXP/CRE I always pick EXP, unless we settle on a specific civ as well.
Amongst the 2 point traits, I value them in this order: ORG>IND>>>IMP>SPI. When civic changes are well-timed with golden ages, SPI should not be important. It does not provide a boost that cannot be replaced by good planning. Also, I have no qualms against using a philosophical leader. Pumping out a few easy early golden ages leading up to Mausoleum Taj would be great. Charismatic I value far above aggressive. Happy cap is really important on emperor, which is why I think Hannibal was the strongest leader pick possible, so kudos to superdeath.


My general idea (I don't know irismono's opinion on this yet), but I do not want to pick a civ around unique units, prioritizing synergy of UB with traits.
Some options we're looking at for civs include:
1. Mali - starting techs amazing, skirmisher perfectly counters chariot gambits and can with a protective leader +barracks can probably go toe to toe against unpromoted axes. Would probably pair with industrious, rush forges. Combined with org rel, we get a massive bonus in whipping. Would probably pair with Bismark.
2. China - always a classic, and could work with Wan Kon. Although, I fear choosing either one first simply because we'd want to get this exact combo.
3. India or Inca paired with Mao Zedong would be very nice, but I've played Inca and India in singleplayer too often.
4. Ottomans - Beelining gunpowder is a viable strat, and Hammams are very nice.
5. Sumerians - We would absolutely pair this with Roosevelt. 45 hammer courthouses that come with priesthood? Double the incentive to go for oracle? Vulture Rush? The opportunities are limitless
6. Holy Rome - Would give us a different tech path than most civs, pushing us towards code of laws and engineering over machinery and guilds first. Terrible scout start tho.
7. Rome paired with Elizabeth. We would be flexible in terms of strategies we want to pursue.

Some curveball civs:

8. Aztecs - the sacrificial altar is my favorite building in civ. It puts whipping on a whole different level. However, the starting techs are crippling and the starting scout and really mediocre UU is enough to push me away from this.
9. Japan. Samurai is a very strong unique unit, but the effective lack of a UB hurts. If our one trick samurai pony fails, so do we.
10. Korea would involve us going for a late game boom with seowons. Would probably need to play philosophical/financial here. Hwachas are amazing as well.
11. Maya - Holkans do not need bronze, ez counter to chariot rushes. Ball courts are insane for happiness purposes, so pair with a creative leader.

Might consider if left with really bad civ picks:
12. Native America - This would be a rush civ. Pair with someone like Ragnar for cheap barracks. Would try to grab stonehenge and then set out on a rampage with archers protecting our dog soldiers. Even if we can't take cities, we can endlessly burn tile improvements.
13. Spain - Citadels come too late, BUT 8 xp on a catapult right off the bat is scary.
14. Zulu - If we pick ragnar and dont get other picks, this is solid.

Not considering:
America, Arabia, Babylon, Byzantium, Carthage, Celts, Dutch, Egyptians, English, Ethiopia, France, Germany, Greece, Khmer, Mongolia, Persia, Portugal (wrong kind of map), Russia, Vikings

[GeneralKilCavalry]

I'll summarize major points of what I have discussed with irismono using quotes from his chat:

irismono:
"but what do we lock in first
Fin and hope for a good civ, or another leader that could synergize well with a lower priority target? In your post you noted Mali as being good to pair with an IND leader. what if we locked it in and gambled on either a financial (next to impossible) or an industrious (slightly more likely) that way we keep point to get whatever leaders are left, but guarantee a good UU. I've got to go now, may be back later tonight. will do some thinking when I'm free."

So that's three options for us. Financial leader, synergy leader (we cut it down to Roosevelt, Bismark, Mehmed), or pick Mali right off the bat, since it was the top civ for us, with Sumeria and Rome as alternatives.

I replied:
I keep forgetting we're on emperor - org so much more valauble. My other main point was to reiterate the power of Sumeria combined with FDR and the Rome/Lizzy synergy.

Irismono then decided we should build up a pro/con list:
"Well we didn't really have our eye on India anyways, so that works
I think we should lock in Mali, but let's check the pros, cons, and alternatives firs
Pros: Good UU, Decent-Good UB, flexible with FIN, ORG, IND, good starting techs (mining/wheel) high whip potential, good econ potential. Possible pairings: Bismark, Mehmed, Elizabeth (also compatible with Rome), Wang Kon, Roosevelt. I think this gives us some flexibility, even if we lose out of Lizzie and/or BIsmark.
I'll let you give the cons.
In the mean time I just had an Idea for a city naming scheme
Sea creature followed by a word for city, town, etc.
Dolphinstad, Sharkville, Seahorse City, etc."


My reply:
"Ok, that's a good naming scheme
as for the cons to mali
1. Probably will lose out on Financial

I actually dont even know what to say
I keep coming up with more pros
Mali UB will really help with high maintenance"

[Irismono]

I think we can afford to lose Financial, if anything Industrious and/or Organized will be more useful in the long run. If we can snag a financial we may take it, but there is a high chance we won't.

[Irismono]

We have chosen Roosevelt as our leader. While Elizabeth was one of our top picks we did our tests assuming we wouldn't get her, so we used the next best thing. Industrious. with this we settled on a strategy involving early BW and a possible bid at the oracle, a Skirmisher rush is also an option.

[Mardoc]

I'm looking forward to watching this game!

[GeneralKilCavalry]

8. RegentMan ------------------------ Peter of Ottomans (Exp, Phi) (wheel, agr)
7. Donovan Zoi ----------------------- Mao of Inca (exp, pro) (agg myst)
6. Alhazard ---------------------------- Zara of Mongolia (cre, org) (hunting, wheel)
5. Gavagai ----------------------------- Ragnar of Rome (Fin, Agg) (fishing, mining)
4. Chumchu --------------------------- Mehmed of Aztecs (exp, org) (myst, hunt)
3. Irismono & GeneralKilCavalry --- FDR of Mali (Ind, Org) (mining, wheel)
2. Commodore ------------------------ Brennus of India (Chm, Spi) (myst, mining)
1. Superdeath ------------------------- Hannibal of Egypt (Fin, Chm) (agg, wheel)

Threat analysis:
RegentMan - Great civ, but will he manage to leverage philosophical into a steady churn of great people? Could be dangerous, could be mediocre.
Donovan Zoi - Effectively, we're playing against a leader with expansive, protective, and half a creative trait. Not a lot going for Donovan economically though. Quechua's useless in MP. With mysticism, might rush oracle. waits to be seen...
Alhazard - I do not value creative highly personally, but having organized and creative together will provide Alhazard with very many cheap buildings and keep maintenance down. Not a fan of the keshik, and with skirmishers/spears, I doubt they'll be much of a threat, provided we have time to build up a road network. Also, bad starting tech.
Gavagai - The strongest pick imho, financial plus the 1/4 of the philosophical trait from Forums, combined with aggressive praets that can either go for 8.8 strength and shock, or 9.6 strength. Even our skirmishers will have a tough time against them. Really hope that we're not next to them, but if we are and we get rushed, we'll try our best to contain.
Chumchu - If Chumchu survives to Code of Laws, he'll have twice the whip potential of anyone on the map. even with hereditary rule, whipping can't be done infinitely, but with only a 5 turn cooldown, Chumchu will be able to keep far fewer troops in garrison. Worst starting techs in game, but with mysticism, might rush oracle to grab CoL really early. Chumchu will either skyrocket or flounder.
(saving us for last)
Commodore - Of the 3 point picks, I actually think his is marginally stronger. Charismatic will do a lot on emperor (unlike protective), and that one early turn converting to slavery won't be wasted, as well as converting to a religion later, etc. I also find India to be stronger than Inca, but whatever.
Superdeath - Early, early rush unit. Although we personally can counter war chariots relatively well with skirmishers, I fear for other teams. Best leader pick in the game, but not too far from Gavagai, us, and Chumchu. Obelisks synergize with Charismatic, making him that much more dangerous.

Us - We have skirmishers, a really underrated unit. In cities, they have nothing to fear from swords and can counter chariots in the field. Our mints will help keep economy afloat and boost our MFG for cheap. Being the ONLY industrious leader, we really hope to grab a few key wonders (Once we have mints and org rel, we're pretty much going to be building wonders with 100% boost, and if we happen to have marble or stone, some wonders will be 2-3 turns to build with only some overflow and a chop or two). With organized, we'll be able to expand safely even with org rel and bureaucracy, and have cheap courthouses to boot. Our pick might not be as powerful as Superdeath's or Gavagai's, but I think we came out closer to the top than the bottom of the pick.