Silicoids tech: Waste reduction showing up?

[d0om]

As you can see I have no choice but to get Advanced Eco Restoration. I had thought I was guaranteed to get cloning, but it seems I'll have to try to manage without it.

[d0om]

Hmm now I have had more tech show up in the planetology tree I can't use, and just before the previous one showed up, I acquired soil enrichment from gropo. I wonder if that could be related?

I don't seem able to steal any waste reduction/controlled base techs though, have had spies trying on a One planet empire that fell far, far behind for the extra tech levels but so far nothing.

Anyone know what's going on?

[Zed-F]

It's a bug, Jim. *shrugs* Never tried to investigate it more than that. It seems to happen from time to time but is rarely a huge problem.

[d0om]

Not getting cloning as silicoids IS a huge problem when you are -35 on gropo and have to send ludicrous numbers of troopers to get Psilion colonies back

[Zed-F]

I suspect it's something like, you get a random roll on whether you got any other non-cleanup/environment techs at that tech level, and if the answer is no, then it has to give you something to progress the tree, so it gives you advanced eco.

Yes it's a bug, and it's a pain, but it doesn't happen all that often.

[d0om]

Is there any way to easily view your upcoming tech tree using an editor? Would be useful to make a load of games as silicoids and see what techs are allocated to see how often this happens.

All races get 50% of tech other than psilons who get 75% right? Would be interesting to see the distributions though (is it weighted by level etc)

One idea I had for a remake to make the psilions a little less dominant would be to tie the 75% of tech to "Good". That would benefit all non-psilion races a little. Perhaps even make Excellent races get 85%-100% of tech (Mrrshan would benefit a lot from being able to cheery pick bombs/missiles/beams as and when they want them)

Making poor races get less than 50% tech would be a little unfair on the silicoids though, so I wouldn't recommend that.

[sargon0]

Is there any way to easily view your upcoming tech tree using an editor? Would be useful to make a load of games as silicoids and see what techs are allocated to see how often this happens.

All races get 50% of tech other than psilons who get 75% right? Would be interesting to see the distributions though (is it weighted by level etc)

I do not know any editor which shows a race's Limited Research List but I can check in the savefile. Actually it is 50% chance of each tech (Psilons 75%) rather than 50% of the techs; you could get more than 50% or less.

So I did a quick test of 12 starts on Medium/Impossible/Silicoids and found:

Advanced ECO Restoration appeared 9 out of 12 starts
Advanced Soil Enrichment appeared 8 out of 12 starts

Sometimes these techs appeared on their own, sometimes with other tech in the same quadrant of the tech tree. This is a small sample but the frequency of Advanced ECO and Advanced Soil (together with absence of other Waste/Hostile tech) suggests that these techs are not on the 'coids banned list or that the game increases their likelihood if your race missed the equivalent earlier tech (and forgets to exclude the 'coids from this adjustment).

[d0om]

That is interesting, a 6% chance of 9/12 with a 50% base chance and a 18% chance with 8/12. So its not conclusive proof its not 50%, but its an indication!

Guaranteed cloning would be a HUGE boost to Silicoids, but it seems they don't enjoy that luxury.

The game probably does as you say and adds these techs in if earlier ones are missing, even for Silicoids