[Spoilers] I have enough games already. Oh look, a PBEM !

[Grimace]

I didn't actually see the settler until I settled the city, so I didn't know you were on your way over at that time. And yes, if you had planted your city further north it would have definitely been slower and weaker overall, but would also have avoided intruding in "my" land and we probably would have had peace a lot longer. But even if I had seen your settler, I probably would have done the same thing because I would have felt you were pink dotting me. I saw the phalanx before settling, but I honestly didn't think you'd start a war at that time over something that really wasn't that big of a deal considering how much land still needed to be settled elsewhere. Especially since based on demos we were roughly equal in power; that meant you couldn't negotiate from a position of strength after kicking me in the nuts.

[AdrienIer]

Basically letting you have that spot meant either settling a very suboptimal 4th city (dragging us down for a long time, as it would be far worse than anyone else's 4th spot) or waste at least 4t moving to the other side of our empire to settle a better one. 4t is a lot on quick speed.

Also... Your city was as much a pink dot as ours wasn't it ? When you show us only a warrior to defend the contested area the temptation becomes immense

[Grimace]

I didn't view it as a pink dot. I viewed that lake as sort of our border region, and I was on "my" side of it. The northern strip of land and the southern area were where I figured we would battle over land. That was how I read the terrain, anyway, just like there was a narrow strip of land to my NW with retep and the desert to my west with Sian. Clearly everyone disagrees with that analysis, but that's what I felt at the time. I was, in my mind, settling my eastern border with you.

Yes, I only had a warrior, but my vulture was, as you saw, merely a turn away. It was a calculated risk, and it didn't pay off. Sometimes it doesn't. The only thing I can say is that I didn't feel I was settling outside of my natural sphere of influence, and thus when you razed my city took it as an unnecessary (but opportunistic) dick move that only gave me one way to respond.

I guess the question is -- do you feel that having a weaker fourth city would have hurt you as much as the war with me did?

[AdrienIer]

Probably not, but we also misestimated the moment you got copper, and we thought your vultures would be at most just being built. With one vulture coming out just as we razed your city it would have been suicidal to go to war with us right away. We'd have seen your graph grow and would have oracled feudalism (as we did) for complete protection