[SPOILERS - PBEM 17] Shoot the Moon - Pacal II of the Ottomans

[Shoot the Moon]

Actually that quote jumped out at me and I didn't want to say anything, but your observation is spot on. You were in a game where everyone was looking for the smallest edge. The only reason I bothered was in reaction to PBEM13 and knowing what I was up against. Its not something I typically bother with, I prefer to play by "feel" even if its less optimal .

Darrell

Yeah, I have known for a long while how much not simming hurt, but of course looking at all of your threads where the initial sims take more pages than my total thread does made it even more obvious how much everyone but me simmed in this game. From now on I plan to at least sim the first 30-40 turns in every game I play and then play by ear how far out to go from there (obviously there's a decreasing return on your time at some point since the turns start taking longer to sim but because of the snowball nature the earlier turns are more important anyway). I don't find simming very fun, but compared to slogging through a game you're terribly out of shape in it's the better choice.

[spacemanmf]

Shoot, thanks for trying to explain. I'm pretty laid back about it all now. Well nearly. I would have enjoyed the game to continue because for me it was the most fun part of the game, but generally when that's the case someone won't be enjoying it. That's the way of Civ. But as I mentioned to Darrell last night, I will spend time doing other things instead of Civ and RB, and that is no bad thing, particularly when I have a 10-month old daughter.

It's interesting the culture point about Russia. We considered leaving it open for razing to see if Dave would raze it and thus sabotage his own vote, but we didn't think that was likely.

I'm interested in a couple of things in relation to the way we nearly played it (and indeed may well have done had novice had his way).

What would you have thought had you opened the save and discovered that we had declared war on you and captured mackoti? Would you have been able to re-capture it in time for the vote count (which I understand would have taken place at the end of the turn proper)? We would have had about 6 units defending (healthy marines and an airlifted mech inf).

[spacemanmf]

And I'm definitely a play by feel player. For both this and PBEM13, it was more or less novice all the way for the first, crucial 50 turns. If it had just been controlling our civ I feel that I probably would have been the runt of the litter, crushed by someone at some point, unable to match the level of play on offer.

[Shoot the Moon]

I'm interested in a couple of things in relation to the way we nearly played it (and indeed may well have done had novice had his way).

What would you have thought had you opened the save and discovered that we had declared war on you and captured mackoti? Would you have been able to re-capture it in time for the vote count (which I understand would have taken place at the end of the turn proper)? We would have had about 6 units defending (healthy marines and an airlifted mech inf).

I don't think so, but I'm not sure if Dave had any airports up to airlift and gift units to me (did he even have flight? I've forgotten ). I mean obviously Dave would have needed to gift me bomber fleets back for a turn, but no I don't think I would have gotten six units to attack in time (especially with not being able to draft). Either way though, would just Mackoti have been enough? I had 99 of 130 votes to begin with just myself (reloaded my last save to check that) and any other jewish city I would almost certainly have been able to get units to in time (on my home continent obviously, and any on rego's old continent dave could easily gift units and I have way more units in range there anyway).

That all being said, Novice was correct in your thread that if you had NAP stabbed me I would very likely have quit.

[spacemanmf]

I don't think so, but I'm not sure if Dave had any airports up to airlift and gift units to me (did he even have flight? I've forgotten ). I mean obviously Dave would have needed to gift me bomber fleets back for a turn, but no I don't think I would have gotten six units to attack in time (especially with not being able to draft). Either way though, would just Mackoti have been enough? I had 99 of 130 votes to begin with just myself (reloaded my last save to check that) and any other jewish city I would almost certainly have been able to get units to in time (on my home continent obviously, and any on rego's old continent dave could easily gift units and I have way more units in range there anyway).

We captured two Jewish cities from Dave in the same turn with total pop of 11. It would have been quite a big swing, even with the loss of population on capture. And I think we worked out it would have been enough given that capturing one of those cities was very much borderline.

That all being said, Novice was correct in your thread that if you had NAP stabbed me I would very likely have quit.

Yeah, I didn't favour this route - I kinda figured you wouldn't like it, although game mechanics-wise it would have been fair enough. Whatever you think about the ethics, my reasoning for the replay of the end of Darrell's turn is that it would have preserved the game state, i.e. we would have remained at peace, whilst sidestepping what had at that point become an otherwise inevitable you-know-what.

[zakalwe]

Nospace, did you guys consider declaring on Darrell and razing (edit: or capturing, for that matter) Russia? Was it in range? That seems like a pretty non-cheesy way to resolve the situation, to me.

[darrelljs]

Nospace, did you guys consider declaring on Darrell and razing (edit: or capturing, for that matter) Russia? Was it in range? That seems like a pretty non-cheesy way to resolve the situation, to me.

We did chat about that possiblity, but the only Transport they had in range was empty .

Darrell

[spacemanmf]

I think we basically discussed EVERY eventuality.