Many people equating ingame integrity with 'forum' integrity as discussed here is one of the reason diplo fell into disuse maybe.
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[PB70] Lurking under the tables
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Urgh, sour taste to the mouth. Not a huge fan of NAPs, but if you say you're going to do something you should do it imo. I'll admit I'm likely biased from Scooters consistent updates and emotional journey to get to this point.
I'll add, I don't think duress is relevant. Being okay with a bit of a betrayal is a defensible stance on how to play diplo, and obviously the frontier relations are that will affect the atmosphere, but I don't see the circumstances of the deal affecting things. You either play fast and loose, or have a trusted word. You can't do both.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
The "duress" complaint really undersells how charitable (for a war game) Scooter was being; he was openly declaring that the smart move for him would be to smash into Mjmd asap, but that he was willing to take a profitable alternative. By even making the offer he was giving up the layer of ambiguity/surprise and making the attack less likely to succeed.
In this sort of game relative strength levels are always a factor in diplomatic negotiation just as much as relative gain/loss is a factor, it's not made under "duress" any more than any other diplo game deal. Mjmd just wants to have his cake and eat it too (I wonder what sort of cake Charriu is?  )
Worth also saying this is likely the moment where a sneak attack has the highest likelihood to succeed. As soon as Scooter can spare galleons to screen for incoming he will. He's alive to the possibility of backstabbing he's just not expecting it so fast.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
 (June 8th, 2023, 15:28)Miguelito Wrote: I must never sign up for a diplo game after writing this, but I always thought that betrayal should be a legitimate part of diplomacy. Of ocurse with the consequences it entails. Now I whined a lot about Amica betraying our alliance in AI diplo PB 59 (I think what did it for me was less the betrayal but feeling manipulated). Sure it sucks, but it's part of the game. I tend to agree with this. If you allow for diplomacy, you also allow for backstabs as the deals are non-binding (I would never play a diplo game though, so perhaps my opinion is void). The issue with diplo games is that too much time goes in for it to feel like a 'game backstab' (although perhaps I'm projecting there  ).
I think that if you're posting about it in your thread to justify yourself, you yourself think it's a little non-kosher.
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I'm not saying I think Scooter's rage (or Mjmd's guilt!) are unjustified. It's more that I think it's a problem with the format, rather than the people. Diplo inherently lends itself to backstabs and intrigue - I feel like that's what most people would say the appeal is. It's just that Civ4 Pitboss stops being 'just a game' after about Turn 100, which doesn't mix well with that intrigue (sorry Mig. You're a better sport than me
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(June 8th, 2023, 15:28)Miguelito Wrote: I must never sign up for a diplo game after writing this, but I always thought that betrayal should be a legitimate part of diplomacy. Of ocurse with the consequences it entails. Now I whined a lot about Amica betraying our alliance in AI diplo PB 59 (I think what did it for me was less the betrayal but feeling manipulated). Sure it sucks, but it's part of the game. I actually do agree that breaking deals is a part of diplo, but in my mind this is different: This is not backing out of a deal beacuse cirumstances changed, but making a deal with the intention of never honoring it.
Yeah that's a good point. I didn't realise the speed with which this would happen. Has scooter even declared on Bing? Also, SD might backstab soon which is icky on top of icky.
There's also just the raw geopolitics of this. We're about to have a 3v1 on Scooter, number 2, allowing number 1 to solidify his power. And the fact that it's not an underdog or number 2 stabbing number 1, but the top player kicking down. Gross, just gross.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
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