[SPOILERS] Tatan, as the glorious Shaka of France!

[Ilios]

So, I've had a quick look inside of the game yesterday evening.

A couple of points:

- Allthough the desert tile next to it has a road, our Gold tile is NOT connected to the empire.
- I really don't like the fact we're building a Settler in a size 5 city, and working cottages while we're doing so. I suggest quickly planting a couple of farms and a grass mine. Maybe stop building the Settler and grow some more, then slave it out.
- I saw a sign Tatan put, saying he'd switch to Repr + Caste on T75. Let's not do that. We first need to grow our cities and slave out some more infra.
- If I could disband the northernmost city by the double plains cows, I'd do so. It is costing us more than 4 gold per turn at size 1, and is not even connected to the empire.
- We absolutely need more farms in every city so we can quickly regrow after slaving.
- I agree about the Academy. Let's find the city with the most food and a Library, run two scientists and we'll have it after 10-11 turns.
- We haven't reached the happy limit in most city, so I agree, let's head for Currency next. I'm not sure, but I think we have enough funds to run the slider at 50%.
- I would like to prioritise Metal Casting next. We're running Organised Religion, so once we have Forges in every city, we'll build/slave with a hammer bonus of 50%.
- We don't have Iron Working yet. Let's get that too asap. The reason our finances are in the toilet, is that all our cities have gone north. Let's plant a couple of cities in the southern jungle once we have IW. They won't cost us as much...

I'm sure I've forgotten half of the things I wanted to say, I'll see if I can find some more stuff to say when we meet up for a chat.

<rolls up sleeves>

Let's roll!

[Tatan]

With regards to the Ice Cream Bunny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewUzwFmDKtQ&NR=1

Really, though, you have to see the whole movie to fully understand the horror.

[Gaspar]

Since we haven't quite managed to run into one another on chat, I thought I'd reply to your comments here plus dump my own. If we don't run into each other before I head off to work, feel free to play the turn and send it off so we don't hold things up any further.

So, I've had a quick look inside of the game yesterday evening.

A couple of points:

- Allthough the desert tile next to it has a road, our Gold tile is NOT connected to the empire.

Noticed this as well. Have to fix that ASAP.

- I really don't like the fact we're building a Settler in a size 5 city, and working cottages while we're doing so. I suggest quickly planting a couple of farms and a grass mine. Maybe stop building the Settler and grow some more, then slave it out.

I normally don't mind this set up, actually. Generally the #1 priority besides getting out more workers/settlers in the early game is maturing cottages. However, since we logically should probably run representation for a bit to leverage Pyramids, I think a finding a few sites to leverage specialists a bit would be good. Especially as we have no GPs yet.

That city in particular should be a production site, with Plains Hill Stone and Plains Hill Copper.

I saw a sign Tatan put, saying he'd switch to Repr + Caste on T75. Let's not do that. We first need to grow our cities and slave out some more infra.

Definitely agree here. We'd get no leverage whatsoever out of either Civic right now. I also doubt we'll be leaving slavery anytime soon.

- If I could disband the northernmost city by the double plains cows, I'd do so. It is costing us more than 4 gold per turn at size 1, and is not even connected to the empire.

Agreed. As we can't let's get a road network to there. Funny as it is, we probably need more workers. As we're Expansive we get them for cheap anyway, but improving those jungle sites is going be time consuming.

- We absolutely need more farms in every city so we can quickly regrow after slaving.

I don't usually build a lot of farms, but there are a couple sites I would use them. More importantly, I'd get all of our food improved.

I agree about the Academy. Let's find the city with the most food and a Library, run two scientists and we'll have it after 10-11 turns.

Diabolik definitely has the best food potential, especially post lighthouse, but its still behind and needs a library. We should probably just be whipping that city blind right now, but it might be a decent GP farm down the road.

In the interim, let's have Deathstalker steal the corn back from Ice Cream Bunny and run a pair of Scientists there.

- We haven't reached the happy limit in most city, so I agree, let's head for Currency next. I'm not sure, but I think we have enough funds to run the slider at 50%.
- I would like to prioritise Metal Casting next. We're running Organised Religion, so once we have Forges in every city, we'll build/slave with a hammer bonus of 50%.
- We don't have Iron Working yet. Let's get that too asap. The reason our finances are in the toilet, is that all our cities have gone north. Let's plant a couple of cities in the southern jungle once we have IW. They won't cost us as much...

Agree with all of that. Basically just think the full focus needs to be on getting the current cities improved and the next batch up and running.

By the by, Tatan, hope all is well and anytime you get the chance to pop in, love to hear your thoughts.

[Ilios]

Alright Gaspar, I have played the save and sent it on.

- I have put most cities on maximum food. We're running below the happy cap as it is, and we'll be getting the Gold and Furs online soon, not to mention the three extra happiness from Forges.

- Set the slider to 50%, research Currency. Eta 5 turns, reduced to 3 after ending turn.

- I have changed the Settler build to a Worker. I would like to get the worker and commerce situation under control before building new cities.

- Deathsomething has been set to max food. It grew after ending turn. As much as I hate doing it, but I think we should work a grass forest next turn instead of a plains mine, so we can grow the city again. The turn after we can run two scientists.

- Icecreamrabbit has been set to a Courthouse for lack of better things to build. Maybe a worker once it has grown a size?

- Lighthouses can and should be whipped next turn in Diabolik and Devil Fish. Devil Fish has more than enough tiles it can work, so both workers farming the forest should move to another city once they're done, maybe after building a road towards the capital.

- I've checked the Power graph. Everyone is running a Farmer's Gambit, so I don't think we need much more military in the short term. We should get some units towards the entrances to our island as sentry.

- We have open borders with Amelia (who build the GLH), but have no trade connection.

- We have a trade connection with Plako and SSMardoc, but no OB. Should we approach one of them for OB? (especially now that the extra trade routes from Currency are coming in)

[Gaspar]

First off, I sent the most bland reply ever to GES. Ultimately, I won't normally send diplo without talking to you, but he had already sent a reply asking if we got it, and he obviously spent a long time putting it together, so I felt like I owed him a response. Here it is:

Hey GES,

First off, let me say thanks for the rundown. I suppose as much as anyone you can appreciate the awkwardness of jumping into to someone else's game. Ilios and I also haven't worked together before, so we'll have some kinks to work out there as well, so hence the radio silence from us despite your much appreciated and well-written report. I don't have a whole lot to say as 1. We still haven't quite worked out a gameplan and 2. This is indeed about the most builder map ever, so we appear to have quite limited opportunity for cooperation. Ruff sure likes himself an oddball map.

I'm not terribly concerned about NAPs and the like at the moment, I think anyone would truly be an idiot to send an invasion force at this point, so that's security enough. As best as I can tell, the stratification of teams is even greater than you assessed, it certainly feels like M7 (I dig) and luddite are well ahead of the rest of us, and Amelia and Adlain are way behind. Basically, everyone seems to be playing to about what I'd guess their Civ-skill level is from other games, which makes sense, since the only civ skill that appears to be being tested here is basic builder skills.

I appreciate the map, by the by. Tatan has one in his thread, but it doesn't have all the player positions filled in, so that's quite handy. We'll keep it to ourselves, though I'd suspect by now everyone has a pretty good idea of the situation. That's really about all the news fit to print, as I said, we're several turns away from really feeling comfortable in Tatan's shoes, so I wouldn't really even know what to ask you about at this point. Given our relative positions in the game, it certainly seems like a wise idea to work together down the road, whenever the first 150 or so builder turns are over. (Yes, I hate the friggin map concept, but that's to be expected. Still not as bad as PBEM12.)

Regards,
Gaspar

I endorse everything you did. Clearly a growth-oriented strategy seems to be the best call. Push growth, increase happy cap, whip a lot, get a better road network, settle the hell out of the island, increase income, reduce expenses. So, basically every other game of Civ ever.

I agree about basically ignoring military completely. Its a no barbs game and nobody's going to attack us anytime soon. A bit of a sentry net on the rails is a decent idea, but probably just as well would be to get the cities on the rails settled. They're never going to be stellar, but the food res are enough to work the resource and a couple cottages, so they'll be net positive. I think we need to debate some specialization - I don't love the currently planned Moai site, for example, but other than that, fairly basic stuff going on right now.

Definitely like the idea of approaching the neighbors about OB. Probably plako if we only choose one, since I think M7 is in the lead, but at this point, I'm more interested in helping our economy than screwing the neighbors, so both maybe?

[Ilios]

Gaspar, it would seem that the tracker did not get the save. I did send it from the iliosgaspar email address, but I got a sort of verification request after sending it off. I suppose Google freaked out when a European based person logged in to an email address created by a U.S. based person...

If you have the time, I suggest just replaying the turn as you see fit.

The message to GES is fine. As you mention to him, the map doesn't really force player to cooperate in this game.

As for chat, it would seem you're usually off to work when I finally sit down behind the computer!

Edit: Seems like the save was sent after all!

[Gaspar]

I think I resolved the verification issue. Nakor and I had the same situation in PBEM12 and there were no issues, maybe its due to the forwarding nature of the tracker combined with being such a new account. Nonetheless, should be okay.

Had a short chat tonight with GES and M7, though it was mostly just about making the save get there, and a little bit about PB4. From talking to them, it seems that the way the time slots fall, I suspect you'll be in position to play the turn far more often than I am, which is totally fine with me. We'll just both have to make sure we're reasonably detailed in turn reporting.

[Ilios]

From M7:

Hey Ilios and Gaspar, good to have you in the game. Hopefully it starts going mostly at 1 turn a day again. And I hope you enjoy it, even though it doesn't provide any good opportunities for war.

We haven't had much contact with your team, mostly because we haven't done almost any diplo because the game moved so slowly, heh. But in what dealings we have had we've tried to be friendly, and we found the same from Tatan, and hope that our cooperation continues!

SevenSpirits (and Mardoc)

Hope, who needs hope?...

This game needs more iron and blood!

[Gaspar]

From M7:


Hope, who needs hope?...

This game needs more iron and blood!

Truth. Unfortunately, I think hope also describes our army.

[Ilios]

Reply to M7:

Hi there,


As you might expect, we're still trying to get a feel for the game.

We too shall strive to be friendly!

What are your thoughts on the other players?

Regards,


Ilios (and Gaspar)