Micromanagement Sims/Planning

[SleepingMoogle]

Agreed. I would rather go for the certainty of settling on the Bananas than the possibility that the Plains hill is the next best tile to settle. If that site doesn't have Horses or Copper in the BFC, there's a chance it won't even be where our second city will go.

[kjn]

Did another sim, based on Sullla's.

Since we have an unfinished warrior in that sim, I thought we could get a bit more research in by sacrificing hammers.

Option 2a - "Deer Hunting for Money"

Simmed: To T32

Settle: Banana

Tech: Hunting (T8) -> Pottery (T19) -> Mining (T26) -> Bronze Working (103/216 beakers, due in 6)

Build: Worker (T10) -> Warrior (T23) -> Worker (T27) -> Settler (T34, 76/100 hammers)

Worker 1 (T10): Corn (T14) -> 1NW-and-road (T15) -> move to deer (T16) and camp (T20) -> move (T21) and cottage floodplains (T26) -> cottage floodplains (T31)
Worker 2: move to river plains hill (T27) and mine (T31)

Citizen 1 (T0): plains-forest-hill (T0-T9) -> flood plains (T10-13) -> Corn (T14-)
Citizen 2 (T15): floodplains (T15-19) -> Deer camp (T20-)
Citizen 3 (T18): floodplains (T18-T25), floodplains cottage (T26-)
Citizen 4 (T21): floodplains (T21-T28), floodplains cottage (T29-)
Citizen 5 (T23): river plains hill (T23-26) -> plains-forest-hill (T27-T30) -> riverside plains mine (T31-)

• Lots of manual tile management here: select flood plains over deer and plains hill mine; select riverside plains hill over forested plains hill.
  
• Pottery, Mining, BW each comes in a turn earlier.
  
• Slightly different worker management - I save 2 worker turns on turns T29-T32, get the mine up a turn earlier, but loose 2 cottage-turns (4C, and growth delayed).
  
• No access to half-built emergency warrior
  
• Total production: 211 hammers, 409 beakers
  
• Using Sullla's worker micro (tag-team cottage, mine) we get 210 hammers (75 into settler, due in 2) and 414 beakers
  
• By building a riverside plains cottage instead of the mine T30-T31 we can get BW turn 37, at the cost of the overflow from the settler.
  

[Lewwyn]

Dislike these sims. I would rather get a warrior out by working the deer before the camp instead of the FP here. As nice as beakers are, barbs are on and I think we want to explore a bit. And if you want beakers... why aren't you going pottery first so that you are cottaging the FPs to work instead of the hunting first?

I think teching hunting is a mistake since the deer is already a 4 yield tile without the camp, we have a priority on pottery, and then to get a strategic resource of either copper or horses. Thus we tech hunting only if we're teching AH before BW. Otherwise its a waste of time in our priorities given the tech speed in this game.

If we tech Pottery first we can then decided to go either hunting>AH or Mining>BW based on a bit more exploration and possibly knowing who our neighbors are. If we get unlucky and find out we're next to Zulu we go Mining>BW. And even if we don't maybe we still go that way, though I think finding horses and unlocking our UU is a very strong draw.

[antisocialmunky]

I like the idea of settling on the Bananas, +1 is huge this early and we can't really say whether or not it denies good cities unless you meta plako's map design. So all things being equal, you might as well make your capitol super strong. For the first 30 turns, I rather have 30 food than 30 hammers. Since 30 food can get you more hammers faster or commerce or more food or more cities.

[Ruff_Hi]

There are 4 or 5 references to settling 1NE in the first 40 posts but none in the balance of the posts (out to #94). Has anyone simmed out 1NE?

[novice]

There are 4 or 5 references to settling 1NE in the first 40 posts but none in the balance of the posts (out to #94). Has anyone simmed out 1NE?

Pretty sure 1NE is the worst of both worlds.

[novice]

Dislike these sims. I would rather get a warrior out by working the deer before the camp instead of the FP here. As nice as beakers are, barbs are on and I think we want to explore a bit. And if you want beakers... why aren't you going pottery first so that you are cottaging the FPs to work instead of the hunting first?

I think teching hunting is a mistake since the deer is already a 4 yield tile without the camp, we have a priority on pottery, and then to get a strategic resource of either copper or horses. Thus we tech hunting only if we're teching AH before BW. Otherwise its a waste of time in our priorities given the tech speed in this game.

If we tech Pottery first we can then decided to go either hunting>AH or Mining>BW based on a bit more exploration and possibly knowing who our neighbors are. If we get unlucky and find out we're next to Zulu we go Mining>BW. And even if we don't maybe we still go that way, though I think finding horses and unlocking our UU is a very strong draw.

This sounded bad to me, so I had to try it. SOB2 - "Screw the deer". I'm not convinced, but it's not terrible:



- Two workers
- Unimproved deer
- Settler eot35
- Bronze Working eot33 - big plus, we'll know where to settle for copper
- Deer will still be unimproved for a long time, big minus.

I actually researched Mining first. The point is the worker needs something to do after farming the corn. Hence Hunting first, so we can go straight to improving the deer. If not Hunting, then Pottery you say, to get started cottaging. But with unimproved deer, the first cottage won't complete until the city (working max food all the way) has just reached size 4, and wants to work corn+deer+ph mine+pfh for a 4 turn worker. So get Mining first so the worker can mine the plains hill after farming the corn. Then Pottery, and you can cottage the flood plains with two workers after mining the hill. Then on to Bronze working and the situation shown in the screenshot.

Hunting->Pottery->Mining->Bronze Working seems like a much better tech path to me. I agree that it's a bit iffy to not have military techs readily available, but we'll always be one tech from Animal Husbandry, or in a real emergency, Archery. Besides, our opponents need military techs too. Actually, the Mayans with their resourceless Holkans are probably the opponents who can cause the most trouble for us early on.

I do agree though that working unimproved deer over an unimproved flood plain is normally a given - I haven't noticed any sims doing otherwise, except the one that tried to squeeze a few extra beakers into Bronze Working.

[kjn]

I think that sim is pretty similar to Parkin's original one, where he went Pottery -> Mining -> BW. He gained quite a bit of commerce, grew only a little bit slower than the Hunting starts, but got the second worker and settler out 2-3 turns later.

Holkans require both BW (216 @ 1.2) and Hunting (72), in comparison to our AH (180 @ 1.2 or 72 + 180 @ 1.4), what they get to skip is connecting the copper.

I did a quick sim or 1NE:

• We delay our first worker to T12
  
• Lose another turn getting the corn improved (1 turn to move there)
  
• Size 2 on T19 (compared to T15 with SOB)
  
• Size 3 on T22 (when LP's start was size 4 on T21...)
  

Given that, I didn't bother to go anymore.

[luddite]

Here's the way I see it:

SOB will definitely get us a faster start. Significantly faster.

SIP will definitely get us a slightly better capital in the medium-long term (after calendar basically). That's good but not as good as a faster start.

SIP MIGHT get us better spots for our 2nd and third cities. That might be important, or it might be nothing. No way to tell for sure without seeing the map. But SOB is the safest play.

In terms of "inflation adjusted value", SOB gets us an extra food now, SIP gets us 3 extra hammers ( from the plains hills) and an extra food from the banana plantation after like 100 turns. That would be worth much less than 1 food now.

[SevenSpirits]

Don't forget SIP claims 2 more FP tiles which with financial cottages are of comparable strength to wet rice.