Current Impossible Strategy

[Arnuz]

I used to be a fan of multi realm builds as well for the ability to trade and find spells, but those are mid-term and long-term advantages. Anything that helps you early is vastly more useful than something that helps you later. I still like going low on books because I don't think I need very many spells, though.

That's not the main reason. The main reason is that the random common spells you get usually reinforce your units, and are much more meaningful for basic troops than for the late game. So, they are very synergistic with the snowball approach.

I dislike extra common spells because it forces me to waste more time before I can research my rares/very rares.

The point is to win before you get there - thanks to your initial advantage, you'd be researching much more quickly than all the others.

Unlike every other category, these are additive, not multiplicative. (unless I remember wrong, someone should check their city detail to make sure. It depends on how I coded it, really.)
A city with no gold bonus at all, will indeed get you 16% more (before maintenance).

Again, the idea is to win by rush. Once the cities start getting banks, you have such an advantage that the reduced weight of the retort doesn't matter anymore.

[Catwalk]

Correct, the gold bonus is additive as is the production bonus. I absolutely hate that MoM compounds here and adds there, it's a huge mess. I know that's not your fault Seravy.

It matters very little for the discussion at hand, though. The game is usually decided by the time banks and merchant's guilds enter, and before then you get small bonuses from coast and river which are further limited by population.

[Catwalk]

I disagree that extra random common spells matter much. Starting spells are vastly more useful than random spells, both because you have access to them right away and because you plan your strategy around them. Only difference is Life, because Life is universally useful for normal troops.

[Nelphine]

Agreed.

I also dont win before banks are important. Even in my rush strategies, the last 2 AI I definitely have amp towers and merchants guilds, and sometimes I even have them for the second AI. Interesting that my strategy, which seravy considers extenely fast, isn't nearly as fast as those posited by Catwalk or Arnuz. (Consider my game 3 game - I already have amp towers and merchants guilds, and I only got to... 1408?)

[zhantul]

Frankly, I find the discussion about omniscient being overpowered a joke. If omniscient is too strong, then how about Life realm? Life spells provide four of the same bonusses, with minimal cost. Just cause grants increased gold due to less unrest and less army maintenance. Prosperity gives even more gold. Inspirations grant production. Tranquility gives research. Finally, heavenly light and guardian spirit give you power (and other bonusses).

Granted, they cost casting time and initial mana, but the yield is way higher even when deducting maintenance. Only tranquility is too late to give a real bonus.

I agree that the nature bonus feels too low. Extra food would be great. Or an additional bonus such as a percentage chance for 1-3 houses outpost growth. (Like the AI advantage).

[Seravy]

It matters very little for the discussion at hand, though. The game is usually decided by the time banks and merchant's guilds enter, and before then you get small bonuses from coast and river which are further limited by population.

...I can't even imagine how that works. If you're still finding ways to consistently eliminate all 4 enemy wizards before 1408 please share so we can know what needs to be nerfed
(even then, roads! Cities taken from enemies will have them. Neutrals might have them. You'll probably also want to build some. And roads are up to 75% gold bonus! Also production. At the very least you will build a Miner's Guild, or have Mountain or Desert or Forest or Hill tiles around your cities!)

[Nelphine]

Agreed.

I also dont win before banks are important. Even in my rush strategies, the last 2 AI I definitely have amp towers and merchants guilds, and sometimes I even have them for the second AI. Interesting that my strategy, which seravy considers extenely fast, isn't nearly as fast as those posited by Catwalk or Arnuz. (Consider my game 3 game - I already have amp towers and merchants guilds, and I only got to... 1408?)

[Catwalk]

I agree that the Omni production bonus being additive is very significant, due to terrain production bonuses. I didn't say AI would be eliminated by 1408, but that the outcome was all but ensured. Also, banks are a relatively uninteresting building with weak payoff for a long time. More units is often a better choice.

But as Nelphine points out, you can steal them from the AI. I was mainly referring to building them yourself.

zhantul, it is no joke at all. Getting a bonus instantly is vastly more powerful than maybe getting it down the road. Just Cause is not as awesome as I used to think it was (the cost is very high), and the others come much much later. Guardian Spirit for mana is a gimmick and it's cute, it's not something you can base your strategy around.

Heavenly Light is the one exception, it is powerful enough to build a strategy around and make a real difference.

[Arnuz]

Yes, the point I was making is that omniscient is front-loaded and so works very well with the rush strategies, which is already considered the only workable one at impossible, and therefore somewhat OP. I think that changing the way that it grants benefit would be enough, not a total removal. I proposed a first to fifth book in another realm for the initial bonus and 6th to 10th for 2k% approach above, I don't think anyone considered that?

[Nelphine]

To those who do much faster impossible strategies than I: do you ever have games where opponents survive to very rare spells?

I'm playing a game right now, 1409, all 4 opponents still alive (although two were banished and mostly decimated by me, so they don't really count). The third arcanus wizard has numerous rares in use; and the myrror wizard is potentially the strongest AI I could fight: Horus, 6 life, 5 sorcery, archmage. He and I are fighting for strongest army strength (switching almost every turn), and while he can't keep up to the power generation of 16 nodes, he has aether binding and is almost keeping up in spell power.

I'm very interested to see where this game goes.

This is kind of my ideal game: I let AI build up to as strong as they can unless they declare war on me, then I attempt to wreck them. (This game I had 3 cities until the first arcanus wizard thought she could attack me, then I took away 8 of hers; during which both other arcanus wizards declared war on me which resulted in me taking 15 more cities. The third arcanus wizard lost one doomstack, no other battles, and sued for peace so I never attacked him.)

I kind of thinking those who play on seravy's play style will hear me say 'start the war with 3 cities, end up in a 3 on 1 war, lose 5 cities during the war, and still end the war with almost 30 cities???! How?'

But that's what I like doing. My fortress was never once attacked. I lost (and retook) 2 nodes but they were never really in danger.

Mid-late 1409 and I have a little over 300 overland casting skill (I'm barely ahead of the myrran wizard who probably has 265) and my power income is around 1400. My gold income, after maintenance, is ~300.

I think what I love about this type of game is the raw numbers. I don't think almost any other strategy could let the myrran wizard build up this way and have any hope of winning. Catwalk focuses so much on winning years before this point that it would never happen.