OSG 29A - The Charismatic Introverts

[Ianus]

Nuts!  I just looked at the MoO manual and it has all of the techs broken up by tech ladder rung.  I've been frustrated for years because the Strategy Guide doesn't have it, and the information was right there all along!  Grrr!


Here they are if anyone wants them or wants to combine them together.  I can't edit photos.

[DaveV]

I am pretty sure wiping out a race's final planet causes you to take a diplo hit; it even gets annouced on GNN. But I am not sure how big that hit is.

I have seen in previous games that sometimes a race will declare war or otherwise complain diplomatically, and you get told that you were framed (although not by who). Could that have happened with the birds, since it did not make any mention of being framed? Or did something else happen?

Don't know either of these, waiting for others to weigh in.

The genocide penalty is substantial: I've seen AIs go from Calm to Furious just because of genocide.

The text from the Alkaris looks to me like someone being dragged into war via alliance. Is it possible that they signed peace and an alliance with the Meklars?

[haphazard1]

Thanks for the documents, Ianus! Some interesting stuff in that FAQ, although also a few things I wonder about. Example: It mentions sending ships you plan to otherwise scrap (such as to free up a design slot) on a suicide mission rather than just losing them. But I thought you actually got back a percentage of scrapped ships' cost, placed in the reserve. If you do not get anything back then yes, sending a soon-to-be-gone-anyway fleet on a final attack run would make sense. Buf if you do get some of the invested cost back, then probably it would be better to scrap them instead and use the funds on a new generation of ships (or whatever else you need). Anyone know for sure on this?

But lots of useful info, strategies, and ideas to ponder. Thanks!

Edit: Crossposted.

Hmmm, good thought on the Alkari maybe cutting a deal with the Meklar. They were in conflict earlier, but I did not think to check the most recent report.

[Mardoc]

Started the turnset. Two turns in the Silicoids declared war - apparently they allied with the Meklar. I suddenly feel the need to play a lot more carefully! May not be able to finish up until tomorrow.

That raised a couple questions. For one, what does a good missile boat design look like? Do I need battle computers or do the missiles have them? Should I bother with shields? Tactical speed, armor? Or should I just go for the cheapest everything to get maximum missile launchers in space?

For another, should I be focusing on bombing or invasions?

[haphazard1]

With the birds and rocks at war with us, what does the next council vote look like? Last time we had 12 of 41 votes, which is not quite enough to block if everyone decides they hate us and vote for our opponent. And there may have been further growth in our rivals' populations due to planetology tech advances, while our population has not really been growing lately.

I would also be interested in hearing what more experienced players think about missile boat design. Swarms of cheap-as-possible launchers? Add some extras to get better performance from fewer launchers? Speed? Shields/armor for survivability?

[Mardoc]

Council vote does not scare me too much. Twenty turns ought to be enough to subtract some opponent worlds and add some of our own. We only need two more votes. Plus both opponents are at war with cats and bears, so when we bomb we should solidify our friends. As long as we can win the wars, anyway. If we can't then we lose conventionally with or without vote.

[DaveV]

That raised a couple questions.  For one, what does a good missile boat design look like?  Do I need battle computers or do the missiles have them?  Should I bother with shields?  Tactical speed, armor?  Or should I just go for the cheapest everything to get maximum missile launchers in space?

For another, should I be focusing on bombing or invasions?

A quick response, since we seem to be stuck:

RefSteel is a good ship designer, and he likes to design a ship when looking at the enemy design. If we have scans of their ships, we know their missile defense number, and can calculate the +/- for a given missile bonus and computer tech level. I don't have my OSG handy, but I think if our attack = their defense, then our missiles have a 50% chance to miss. Each +1 in attack means (10%?) more missiles hit, each -1 means more will miss. Generally, it's best to max out computers, even if you have to sacrifice a rack of missiles, but you can do the math. Missiles, especially, have diminishing returns on computer tech, since they always do the same amount of damage when they hit.

I've already learned from the last succession game that I don't use enough bombers. If we bomb out the right planets, we could put the AIs out of range of our worlds. Invasions cost a lot of population, but the tech bonus can be game changing. If we can't hold a conquered world, though, the AIs can grab our tech by counter invading.

There's never one right answer, which is what makes the game interesting. In the end, the guy in charge has to do what he thinks is best.

[Mardoc]

I guess the main part I'm confused about: the description of Hyper-X rockets says something like 'missile guided by a +1 level targeting computer'.  Is that +1 compared to our empire, or +1 compared to what's mounted on the ship?  One way, battle computers make a huge difference; the other, they're just expensive scrap.

Right now, Hyper-X rockets are our only decent anti-ship weapon, so it's pretty much got to be something based around them.  I was planning to mosey around to getting something going against the Alkari, but the Silicoids are a much bigger threat.  I'm particularly concerned about their alliance with the Meklar, extending the range of Meklar ships and providing the machines a solid voting bloc.  I figure at a minimum I need to clear Quanto out and getting more of a frontier would be worthwhile too.

We don't have scans of any ships at the moment. I'll add that as a secondary goal, along with blowing up the ships .  I know the Alkari tech, but only just started spying on the Silicoids, not sure what they have yet.  I honestly figure I'm just plugging the dyke right now; I need to buy us some breathing room and get started on a veto bloc on the Council, but I figure whatever I build will be obsolete fairly soon.  Basically I want to clear out the Silicoids from their nearby uninhabitable worlds, while invading one world from the Alkari and maybe some from the 'coids. The main tradeoff is going to be fleet vs. research; need to keep research going so that we can hold the line against the Meklar while we expand westward.

I'm leaning toward building a stack of the cheapest hull I can get a missile and a decent drive onto, so that I can maximize the number of missiles in our first two volleys. Maybe go with 2-rack missiles instead of 5-rack, even.  Was thinking I'd sacrifice everything else, aiming to win battles before they even come into range of our ships. I just want to know if Battle Computer boosts missiles or not.

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Anyway, my stall is only halfway the fault of being nervous about making important calls. The other half is the combination of work and extra housework because my wife is gone on a business trip. It being Friday, those are both about to improve. I will try to get the turn tonight; depends on how late I end up working. But if not tonight, then certainly I can pass the potato tomorrow morning so we can have the whole holiday weekend for cycling.

[haphazard1]

Not sure what to advise here. Maximum numbers of launchers is one approach, and try to swarm the enemy by pure numbers in the initial volley; but with 2-racks you have no staying power so if the first volleys do not do the job you have to retreat. But even 5-racks only help a bit with that problem, as you still can not remain in an extended fight. And the reduction in number of missiles per volley can hurt.

What we build now will be obsolete soon (hopefully, assuming we survive and can keep at least some research going), but we have to survive long enough for the current designs to become obsolete. So I think we have to spend on fleet now anyway. That or turtle and build lots of missile bases while we wait for better tech, but that is not going to prevent attacks on our worlds or give us a chance to attack Alkari or Solicoid worlds for tech. And with the Meklars able to reach our worlds, defense bases are probably not going to be enough to stop them anyway. Might as well at least attempt some offense and hope to capture some tech from the birds or rocks.

[Mardoc]

Ok, from the thread I started to get input from the other team, it looks like I do absolutely need Battle Computers for missiles to be effective.  I think the 2-shot versus 5-shot question and whether to pay for manueverability will come down to the details; if I can find any way to cram a missile + computer in a Small hull, I want to.  If I have to use Mediums, then I might as well take advantage of the extra space, although that will be in tension with cost (and hence number of ships produced).

With 7 points of planetary shielding and the Meklar not currently having any bombs but shielding 6, our missile bases vs. their ships will be near-stalemate, neither side doing much to the enemy.  If they ever attack, that is.  We just need a little progress in shields to catch up to their weapons and become impregnable.  Against the bomb-having races, Hyper-X rockets are actually pretty good damage, so it's a damage race.  Both ways I don't think we're in any extinction risk, at least not yet.

The main thing we need to keep in mind while building soon to be obsolete ships is: Use it or Lose it!  They'll be worth building so long as I use them immediately to make gains.  I'm going to have to resist the urge to wait to build an uber unstoppable fleet and instead just aim to keep the initiative.