[SPOILERS] PBEM 11 Lurker Thread

[The Black Sword]

Archduke seems to have decided there were only 2 lines of play:

1. Don't attack Brazil - Brazil wins.
2. Total war with Brazil -  Rome wins.

If he's pretty confident in these outcomes, why not at least try a different path? Take some cities from Brazil, not enough to put him out of contention, then offer peace for the cities with the threat of total war to back it up. Not saying it would be easy or it would work but at least there's the chance. It feels a little like he just wants to claim the moral victory (I would have won without these stupid occupation rules!).

[suboptimal]

The fact of the matter with taking a few cities and then offering peace is that with the occupation rules it is always in one's best interest to not surrender and take peace because it cripples your would-be conquerer. Unless/until the occupation can be modded out or a gentlemen's agreement regarding this agreed to before the game starts this will usually be the situation.

Given that I'm not sure what alternate path he might have had.

[Old Harry]

So what if archduke offered a few cities back to Brazil in return for peace? How many would it take to make you accept?

Obviously I don't see that happening, I'd just like cornflakes to feel like he was in with a chance again...

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

 In 2-3 turns I will face a two-pronged attack on my capital and a little later this game is over for me.

I had a long time of looking over this game, racking my head. I do not think I can win this. I considered going for cultural, but given Rome´s strength this may be difficult.

Leaning towards a concession atm.

 WW doesn't hurt me nearly as much though since I'm not in contention for the win Nothing personal TheArchduke, just a game, and certainly no grudge going forward ... but Brazil is out to inflict as much pain and suffering on Russia as possible Vive la resistance!

Is this game over? Cornflakes and Archduke haven't clearly conceded, but neither thinks that there's really any doubt. The only long-shot is a Russian cultural win, which given that no way will rho open up his borders to trade with the Russians, and has Rome's cultural advantage, ain't gonna happen. 

I'm wondering if it's time to bring this up to the players, or let them play it out a little more. Archduke and Cornflakes still seem to be enjoying themselves.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rho has got this because he will kill Rowain and the will be able to babysit Cornflakes to deny Archduke his cities. He already has a big navy that will have nothing better to do. I would ask Archduke if he wants to concede and call it if he does.

[MJW (ya that one)]

This game is over. Archduke has conceded and although Rho has not talked about a possible culture win he will block it when he declares to deny Brazil.

[Rowain]

I'll say all this with the caveat that I can't read inside your minds and only have the conversation in this thread as insight into what the thought process was: so if I have misunderstood then I'm certainly open to hearing what the idea behind the map design were. But my initial read through lead me to believe that 1) the map was specifically made in it's shape to limit Aztec's rushing of city states, and 2) that no other considerations towards the strengths of other civs were given, at least to such a degree as to change the map for them. Again, perhaps there were considerations not written about and I'd be happy to hear them.

Why is this upsetting? Apart from learning that you were deliberately set against from the start of the game, this is also just bad process for making maps. Picking favorites or trying to adjust difficulty of civs is really outside the scope of what a map should be designed for. Civ 6 is an inherently unbalanced game with different civs having strengths and weaknesses (some more than others), and it isn't the map maker's job to try to smooth out those differences. That has always fallen on the players in the dorm of drafts or other pick selection methods. And while it was not specifically stated it has always been custom that a map should be made independent of the knowledge of which civs or would be participating. Balancing a map to account for multiple possibilities is good;  but specifically designing a map to keep just one player in check is not. This is also why it is practice to randomly allot players to starting positions. Choosing to move them around after to set up a map makers desired confrontation is just over the line and heavy handed.

Second, the map making process didn't even mention the strongest civ in the game: Rome. If we are going to cut off one civ's strategy why leave the strongest civ untouched? Why not move Rome's iron far away so the unbalanced legions don't just roll over a continent and then tech into space - this seemed to be a concern that Aztecs would do so, but no thought of Rome doing so when Rome's path is much easier! Ironically, that is likely going to be the outcome of this game now.

Third, this all was done without much thought given to other consequences of these decisions. Again, maybe there was but the only talk in the thread was about how this affected one civ in particular. Rome was deliberately switched with Germany after the random allotment - that decision in itself warrants the appalling adjective I used earlier - but there was no consideration to how this impacted other teams. How do you think Rowain is going to feel when he learns that he had to border 2 neighbors with ancient era UUs because Greece was deemed a warmongering civ? Was it considered that hoplites are weak to melee units and that Rowain would be at a disadvantage for much of the game? Or what about moving Germany away from civs likely to rush it early on when that civ's middle and late game production strengths are offset by early game weakness? Going back to Rowain, was there any consideration to how putting all the city states in the middle would effect a civ that has unique abilities tied to gaining suzerainity over city states? Or was every decision made just to "keep pind in check"?

+1

To add I find it funny that the mapmakers talk about PBEM 2 completly ignoring that the so called war-making civs were Gorgo, Perikles and Germany. I hope you realise the difference here. And the next time perhaps you try to play with hoplites against eagle-warriors/Roman Legions.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Rho was planning to attack Brazil? I'm sure that he would change his mind through...