Yup, settling on that PFH tile by the crabs wastes the forest but there'd be food and housing aplenty. I'll get the area scouted with the second galley (first one goes northeast to look for city-states and opponents).
Another quiet interturn. One barbarian warrior is dead, two more kills needed for the eureka. Interestingly in addition to te warrior suiciding the spearman made an attack. That works to my advantage. Archduke’s population went down a point, he’s got a settler out right behind us. In the north I move one more tile SW and don’t see anything. We’ll see how this goes next turn.
In the southeast the warrior from Nan Madol moved towards the coast, so I cross the river to follow. Fully reveals the coast with a fish 2 NE of the horse. This might make a good city location, especially to protect Nan Madol down the line. I’m thinking to move north towards Nan Madol, just enough to remove the last bit of fog between Sound of Silence and the city-state for a future trade route, then head south and back west to defog along the tundra. I don’t know that heading around and north of Nan Madol would be useful.
Settler moves one hex NE, three turns until founding.
Interesting that the spear decided to attack, but good news that it’s willing to give up the fortify and defensive bonuses and attack out I suggest waiting to clear the camp until the 2nd warrior pops out of the camp in order to ensure an easy 3rd barb kill.
Your scouting plans sound good.
You could settle city #3 on the eastern coast, on the tile Nan Madol’s warrior is on. If the era has rolled to Classical you could then immediately faith purchase a builder to pasture cows and then mine a hill and chop the forest once Magnus has enough time to get established. That would be a long hike for the settler but it is coastal for the immediate culture and faith yields, has better terrain than any other location we can see, and will pick up the excellent Furs file with culture expansion in 5 turns. As you mentioned, a city there gives a base to defend Nan Madol.
I never responded to a couple of your questions a few turns ago:
No, policy cards don’t multiply the faith from chops.
No, I don’t think the science dedication would be better. Expansion fuels the snowball, and your Yosemite science yields can support you expansion by allowing you to focus on settler and builder faith purchases rather than.
Upon further reflection, I think your initial plan to chop the 2nd galley and save the faith for use in the Golden Age is better. Make use of the +100% ship production card and save the faith for an immediate builder purchase at the 3rd city (whether it is the Far East or a closer location)
The original plan works well, but instead of a monument (because Nan Madol) we put the galley overflows into a builder. That new builder can put down a Kampung (the original one is mining the copper) and then wait for Magnus on Turn 46. There are a few options at that point:
Coast City could go Settler -> Holy Site ->Govt Plaza while Capital goes Builder -> Warrior -> Slinger -> Settler -> Holy Site. This gets us to the east coast location around T62 as the coastal city's settler is done first. The other settler would complete Turn 48 and go...where?
Coast City could go Warrior -> Slinger -> Slinger -> Holy Site -> Govt Plaza using slingers to maximize jungle chop production and the capital build order remains the same as above. This gets us to the east coast location two turns earlier, generates a bit more faith and culture from coastal districts completing sooner but leaves us at 2 cities + 1 settler.
No interturn notifications. Woden and Archduke both got some era points (Woden got three – wonder what he did?). In the north my warrior sits tight as the settler moves up. There is nothing between the two units that poses a threat to the settler. I fortify the warrior in place for the time being to heal up. I’ll attack the barbarian camp after the coastal city is founded.
Out east I have to move NW away from the coast in order to scout north as the warrior from Nan Madol has moved up the coast. Next turn I’ll have cleared out fog to provide a continuous path for a trader, though I’d prefer that I be able to get up on the furs rather than go through the desert to do it.
Could you email me a game save that I can look at?
(January 6th, 2019, 17:51)suboptimal Wrote: Coast City could go Settler -> Holy Site ->Govt Plaza while Capital goes Builder -> Warrior -> Slinger -> Settler -> Holy Site. This gets us to the east coast location around T62 as the coastal city's settler is done first. The other settler would complete Turn 48 and go...where?
In this build order, the chops go into the Settler with Colonization slotted? I like this plan better with both cities getting out settlers.
Quote:Coast City could go Warrior -> Slinger -> Slinger -> Holy Site -> Govt Plaza using slingers to maximize jungle chop production and the capital build order remains the same as above. This gets us to the east coast location two turns earlier, generates a bit more faith and culture from coastal districts completing sooner but leaves us at 2 cities + 1 settler.
Military units and settlers both get +50% policy cards. When you say maximize jungle chop production do you mean overflow? Overflow production modifiers are going to be patched out soon when the expansion hits.
Quote:We'd have about 330 faith in the bank by EoT60.
That is enough for settler + builder, or enough for 3 builders. I think builder purchase at city #3 and #4 in the plan where both the capital and coastal city build settlers would be best. Builders will greatly speed the snowball at the new cities, allowing our existing cities to focus on other build items (trader!) while also saving the builders movement time through all of the rough terrain. With 3 coastal cities plus 2 HS (1 adjacency each) we'll be generating only 8/turn? That's a "free" builder every 12 turns assuming 100 cost each after the 30% discount, although that will scale up after each purchase.
I noticed a bit of synergy between Liang and Monumentality in that one city can be dedicated as the purchase location for builders which would make them all have +1 charge. Since Monumentality gives +2 moves to builders they can be relocated easily from the central purchase city to wherever needed in the empire. Not sure if that will work out in practice but it sounds good in theory.
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Another thing to always keep in mind is that we need to beware of Macedon potentially on our starting continent. I took another look at Macedon's unique units and they are not very impressive at first. Their unique infantry only get their +5 when besieging a city, but like all infantry are slow and will give you an opportunity to meet them in the field. Their unique horseman gets no combat bosnus as first until their first GGeneral is recruited. At that point their unique horsemen enjoy a 10 point CS advantage when adjacent to a GG and become very scary (and the GG movement massively speeds up their unique infantry)! I don't think Macedon is competitive in the long term in a continents setup but in the short term they can really wreck an unprepared neighbor. I'm not sure what the best defense would look like, other than Knights.
On the plus side their unique horsemen are classified as heavy cavalry so they can't take the promotion vs. ranged, but on the negative side their base strength is enough to wreck archers and with Tortoise they are basically immune to our archers at 56 vs 25. Swordsmen will be too slow on the defensive. We could at least boost them a bit with Oligarchy, but they would be subject to first-strike hit and don't have enough movement to maneuver. A swordsman defense would require fortifying a line of defensive terrain and backing with archers, hoping that they don't break through the line and out flank our archers. Horsemen could at least maneuver but the 10 point strength deficit would be costly and would require us to have a larger number of defenders.
If we neighbor Macedon it looks like we need to unlock Knights ASAP. Nan Madol will help speed our journey to Feudalism. Stirrups is an easy (although expensive) beeline with only HBR as a prerequisite. On the other hand, the 20% discount to techs of a previous era might actually make Stirrups an overall more efficient beeline making all other classical techs cheaper. I hit Feudalism T81 in PBEM 11 which should be achievable with Nan Madol boosting culture. In PBEM6, TheArchduke's Macedon began their full assault around T70 and captured your Australian capital T79 [ forgot you already have some personal experience against Macedon]. If Macedon attacks early you should at least get the Defensive Tactics boost to speed things along. If Macedon attacks after you complete Defensive Tactics then you should be able to have Knights in the field shortly after their DOW (at the latest). On the tech side after your current Shipbuilding > Bronze Working plan you can hit The Wheel (boost from copper mine) > Archery > HBR > Stirrups to 60% and still probably have time to pick up something else along the way before Feudalism completes. Irrigation for plantations, Celestial Navigation for harbors, and Masonry for wall + Pyramids are all other priorities that could be slipped in some order before HBR and/or Stirrups according to the expected Feudalism timeframe. Definitely need Wheel first so you can pre-build/chop Heavy Chariots. And if you do not border Macedon then maybe you can take the offensive early to an unprepared neighbor
(January 7th, 2019, 11:04)Cornflakes Wrote: Could you email me a game save that I can look at?
The EoT23 is attached.
(January 7th, 2019, 11:04)Cornflakes Wrote:
(January 6th, 2019, 17:51)suboptimal Wrote: Coast City could go Settler -> Holy Site ->Govt Plaza while Capital goes Builder -> Warrior -> Slinger -> Settler -> Holy Site. This gets us to the east coast location around T62 as the coastal city's settler is done first. The other settler would complete Turn 48 and go...where?
In this build order, the chops go into the Settler with Colonization slotted? I like this plan better with both cities getting out settlers.
Yes. Colonization is slotted as of Early Empire completing around T41. Likewise we'd also be putting in Agoge for the unit builds at the capital. The first jungle chop at coastal overflows into the Holy Site, the second is unboosted (except for the boost by Magnus). Although now that I looked at the numbers I was using old magnus (+100%) instead of new magnus (+50%) so the timings are going to back up a bit. The holy site at the coastal city would actually complete EoT58 unless instead of a jungle we chopped the forest E of the sugar (moves it up to EoT53).
(January 7th, 2019, 11:04)Cornflakes Wrote:
(January 6th, 2019, 17:51)suboptimal Wrote: Coast City could go Warrior -> Slinger -> Slinger -> Holy Site -> Govt Plaza using slingers to maximize jungle chop production and the capital build order remains the same as above. This gets us to the east coast location two turns earlier, generates a bit more faith and culture from coastal districts completing sooner but leaves us at 2 cities + 1 settler.
Military units and settlers both get +50% policy cards. When you say maximize jungle chop production do you mean overflow? Overflow production modifiers are going to be patched out soon when the expansion hits.
Yes, I know that the overflow is getting patched out. At our current turn rate, however, we may get to Turn 60 before the patch drops so we should try to use it while we can.
(January 7th, 2019, 11:04)Cornflakes Wrote:
(January 6th, 2019, 17:51)suboptimal Wrote: We'd have about 330 faith in the bank by EoT60.
That is enough for settler + builder, or enough for 3 builders. I think builder purchase at city #3 and #4 in the plan where both the capital and coastal city build settlers would be best. Builders will greatly speed the snowball at the new cities, allowing our existing cities to focus on other build items (trader!) while also saving the builders movement time through all of the rough terrain. With 3 coastal cities plus 2 HS (1 adjacency each) we'll be generating only 8/turn? That's a "free" builder every 12 turns assuming 100 cost each after the 30% discount, although that will scale up after each purchase.
Having built four settlers the fifth would cost 340 faith. Builders would be starting at 124 faith. The policy card discounts do not apply to faith purchases, IIRC. I think purchasing builders at the east coast, coastal and new coastal city would be best, with the capital building or buying a 4th once faith is available.
(January 7th, 2019, 11:04)Cornflakes Wrote: I noticed a bit of synergy between Liang and Monumentality in that one city can be dedicated as the purchase location for builders which would make them all have +1 charge. Since Monumentality gives +2 moves to builders they can be relocated easily from the central purchase city to wherever needed in the empire. Not sure if that will work out in practice but it sounds good in theory.
That would work but getting builders out to the east coast city might be time consuming. It might be worth putting Liang in the coastal location and buying the builders there and just buying a 3-charge builder on the east coast.
Yeah, Macedonia. (*flashback* *shudder*) They could be a problem if they are here but I think there are a couple of things going for us that lessen the damage a little:
- it's Woden, not Archduke, and Woden has not shown the ruthless military efficiency that Archduke has.
- DotF is a possibility if we slot Scripture in the Tier 1 government when we get it.
With our science and gold rates it might be faster and easier to get to crossbows. Using the terrain we could set up crossbows and swords on defensive lines.
Our propensity for coastal locations combined with a high culture rate to get us to Mercenaries might also make Jongs a viable unit for city defense...
Getting the galleys out and about will tell us who's around as I don't think overland scouting will get that done.
Nothing new internationally. Sound of Silence has culturally expanded, taking the sugar tile. With no remaining second ring resources its next “natural” tile will be the western half of Yosemite. I’m going to work the sugar for one turn, then swap it over to the coastal city for population growth. I'll buy the Yosemite plains tile and work that starting next turn (only 55)
The interturn has also brought us a sort-of boon in the east as a barbarian camp has spawned just south of one of my markers. That camp will net us Bronze Working and a couple of era points. I continue with the original scouting plan and move NE onto the hill. That opens up the fog for a clear trader path and reveals some more tiles.
The city over here will have reasonable production and chop capabilities. For reference, the scout is on the fur tile just E of the “City #4” pin.
Back west the settler moves into position to found next turn. After debating whether or not to attack the camp this turn or next I decide to attack now, bringing the spearman down under 10 damage left and earning a promotion. If the spearman attacks it will die and there are no other barbarian units in the area so the warrior should be safe. I’ll promote next turn and then take the camp on T26.
I suggest waiting to clear the camp until the 2nd warrior pops out of the camp in order to ensure an easy 3rd barb kill. 
/turn? That's a "free" builder every 12 turns assuming 100
forgot you already have some personal experience against Macedon]. If Macedon attacks early you should at least get the Defensive Tactics boost to speed things along. If Macedon attacks after you complete Defensive Tactics then you should be able to have Knights in the field shortly after their DOW (at the latest). On the tech side after your current Shipbuilding > Bronze Working plan you can hit The Wheel (boost from copper mine) > Archery > HBR > Stirrups to 60% and still probably have time to pick up something else along the way before Feudalism completes. Irrigation for plantations, Celestial Navigation for harbors, and Masonry for wall + Pyramids are all other priorities that could be slipped in some order before HBR and/or Stirrups according to the expected Feudalism timeframe. Definitely need Wheel first so you can pre-build/chop Heavy Chariots. And if you do not border Macedon then maybe you can take the offensive early to an unprepared neighbor 
The holy site at the coastal city would actually complete EoT58 unless instead of a jungle we chopped the forest E of the sugar (moves it up to EoT53).
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