WW11 - Civilization

[scooter]

On my phone. Two more super fast comments:

1) Ichabod is an excellent werewolf - one of the best I've played with and I've played with a lot. Do you really think he'd say anything to implicate a teammate if he's caught? Or is he going to drop hints to implicate a villager whO looks suspicious?

2) already got 9 votes on me? Only person on someone else is Lewwyn who people mostly think is innocent. That means I can say for a fact wolves are voting for me. Just FYI. I'll try to make time to cover the other comments made.

[Rowain]

2) already got 9 votes on me? Only person on someone else is Lewwyn who people mostly think is innocent. That means I can say for a fact wolves are voting for me. Just FYI. I'll try to make time to cover the other comments made.

Lewwyn votes for you. The only one voting different is MJW.

(with yourself and Sareln not having voted)

[scooter]

FYI - theres no way on earth I would've drawn that much attention to myself as a werewolf if I saw Ichabod going down like that. Give me some credit. I may suck at villager but I know how to play werewolf and play it well.

1) Ichabod is an excellent werewolf - one of the best I've played with and I've played with a lot. Do you really think he'd say anything to implicate a teammate if he's caught? Or is he going to drop hints to implicate a villager whO looks suspicious?

2) already got 9 votes on me? Only person on someone else is Lewwyn who people mostly think is innocent. That means I can say for a fact wolves are voting for me. Just FYI. I'll try to make time to cover the other comments made.

No thoughts on any of these from anyone?? I realize my knowledge of who was voting who was limited (like I said, was reacting on my phone), but the point still stands that I've got 9 votes on me and no way all 9 of them are villagers.

[scooter]

Wow. Near consensus on Scooter? I'd been reading him as suspicious, but I was partially attributing it to natural resentment at his hounding me.

If you all are willing, I can definitely back a Scooter lynch. But I am worried about this broad consensus. Are the wolves hanging him out to dry to gain credibility, or are they laughing at a dogpile on a villager?

Unreal Selrahc. That's a freaking ton of qualifying you're doing to your posts. It's like you know I'm innocent so you're bracketing your agreement with qualifiers so you have an "out." Wanting to nail down some town cred when it shows up that I'm innocent like you know I am? To use the now-famous quote.... "wolf. wolfwolfwolfwolf."

[novice]

No thoughts on any of these from anyone?? I realize my knowledge of who was voting who was limited (like I said, was reacting on my phone), but the point still stands that I've got 9 votes on me and no way all 9 of them are villagers.

Who cares if wolves are voting for wolves.

You are good enough of a player to realize that your actions day 2 and night 2 were incredibly suspicious. You would realize this even as a villager, and refrain from making yourself so mislynchable at a critical juntion. Your actions do not speak bad villager, they speak desperate wolf.

You played the same "give wolf scooter some credit" card on day 1, and used it intentionally as a double bluff, blatantly declaring Ichabod innocent based on very little information, for example.

[Catwalk]

1) I don't think Ichabod was implicating you as much as he was trying to subtly steer novice in a different direction.
2) If your case (as a wolf) is hopeless, the best move for the other wolves would be to abandon you. Which would, in turn, allow you to argue that the wolves are gleefully piling on innocent scooter.

That said, I'm still not decided yet. I do think you're the best option for today, the evidence is very compelling. What's your ability, who do you suspect and why?

[Selrahc]

Unreal Selrahc. That's a freaking ton of qualifying you're doing to your posts. It's like you know I'm innocent so you're bracketing your agreement with qualifiers so you have an "out." Wanting to nail down some town cred when it shows up that I'm innocent like you know I am? To use the now-famous quote.... "wolf. wolfwolfwolfwolf."

I think there is a fantastic case against you and you're probably guilty. I'm qualifying things for the exact reason you're pointing out in your defence. The broad consensus means the wolves have to be voting for you, so there are definitely wolf motives in play. Working them out is helpful. Is the case against you so water-tight that there was no point contesting it? Were the wolves not around when the train started and had to follow along? Or are you innocent and the wolves are actively pushing? Working this stuff out is certainly helpful to getting info out of the day.

[scooter]

Alright I cooled off a tad and made some time. Let's do this.

Novice your thinking is incredibly shoddy. This whole post you wrote is garbage. It would make a lot more sense if I had no freaking clue whatsoever how to play wolf, but I do and I've proven that. I'm less bothered by the moronic dogpile votes and more offended that you think I'd be this stupid as a werewolf. But okay, let's dig in to this pile of crap.

Scooter jumped on the conspiracy theory bandwagon when he should have known better, and backtracked as fast as he could when he saw Ichabod was going down. Scooter went only as far (or a bit further) than I would have dared as a wolf in the same situation to defend Ichabod. He didn't flat out state the Zak was wrong or lying, he just complained that the situation was rushed and confusing. Then he piggybacked on Rowain's conspiracy theory. The other three conspiracy theorists have personalities that partially excuse them. Scooter does not.

BS. Assume for a second I'm a wolf which you apparently have. That would mean I know:

-Ichabod is guilty
-Zakalwe is innocent and his ability is real
-Ichabod is caught and defending him would be the equivalent of going down with him.

What is the intelligent wolf reaction here? Anyone with half a brain can figure it out. You shut your mouth, vote Ichabod, kill Zakalwe over night, and live to fight another day. Something just seemed weird about it so I questioned it. I was wrong. Big fricken deal. I wouldn't have stuck my neck out there for a doomed wolf like Ichabod was. I did that once in WW2 in my first ever game and it was incredibly stupid.

As for the Maritime aspect, Ichabod was clearly trying to gain my trust in the Maritime thread. He orchestrated the "fake attack" on day 1, and any real conclusions from that experiment were conveniently nulled out by Scooters untimely declaration of Ichabod's innocense. Near the end of day 1 I clearly expressed my intention to vote Scooter - what would Ichabod really have to lose by joining me on scooter to gain some trust, instead of sticking with the odd target of JKaen. A fellow wolf, that's what he would lose. Ichabod refrained from discussing Scooter with me at all, just bringing up other suspects instead. On day 2, I again stated interest in lynching for information, and in the game thread I tried to get votes going for Scooter. Again, Ichabod ignored me. Why no attempts to gain my trust?
[/color]

This is incredibly contradictory. First you said he was clearly trying to gain your trust and then you ask why he never tried to gain your trust? Maybe you answered your own question. The best way for a wolf to gain villager trust is to nail another wolf. Then why DIDN'T he try to nail me down? Hmmmmm. Maybe I'm not a wolf? Ever considered that? Of course not, you've got blinders on because you seem to think I'm a wolf who has no freaking clue what he's doing.

Last time Ichabod and I played wolf together we had ZERO wolf lynches in the only recorded perfect game ever. Do you really think that:

1) Ichabod the wolf would tell novice the villager that he's convinced scooter the wolf is innocent.
2) scooter the wolf would tell the whole village the Zak the villager's tracking of Ichabod the wolf is a farce thus endangering himself for no reason whatsoever.

Really?!?!?! Give us some credit, geez. Ichabod's actions and my actions make WAY more sense if I'm a villager.

So yeah. Add to that all of scooters strange metagame posts and blatant power role fishing on night 2, and his attempts to get the baner to protect anybody but Zakalwe.

I wanted info. Something seemed wrong. Rowain noticed it too. I was wrong, but again, no way I'd play the night phase like that if I'm a wolf. I never do.

And this post alone should be enough to condemn scooter:

My first thought is a Selrahc lynch gives us the most information. My second thought is that Tasunke just screamed "I am a wolf" over and over again at the end of the last day. I think those are our best lynch possibilities today. Wish we had a way to verify Catwalk.

How on earth is Selrahc our best lynch? He strongly advocated lynching Ichabod yesterday after Zak's claim, and there is no basis for any conspiracy theories anymore. And in the Maritime thread Ichabod repeatedly tried to lure me onto the Tasunke bandwagon. Apart from Scooter the only other logical target today is MJW. Everything MJW does and says is just plain wrong and blatantly anti-village. His only saving grace is his general erratic behaviour, but he reminds me very much of wolf MJW from WW7, where he defended me (wolf) from JKaens seer claim even after I had given up myself.

Holy crap novice, THAT'S THE CORRECT WOLF PLAY RIGHT THERE. Selrahc nailed it. That doesn't mean he's a wolf necessarily, but when the Ichabod thing surfaced, ONLY the wolves knew Zakalwe was innocent, therefore ALL of them should just shut up, vote Ichabod, and get out of day 1. However, I did NOT know Zak was innocent, so sue me for wanting us to be thorough. I came back to my computer with 15 mins to go, saw Zak spilled the beans, and saw a village in complete freak-out mode. My first thought was "weird timing" and I watched my top werewolf target get magically saved when he was finally getting voting momentum. So yes, that scared me a little and I wanted to make sure we weren't making a stupid decision. You yourself finally wrote something like "Guys, not that hard, lynch Ichabod and we'll either get a wolf now or have enough information to get a couple wolves." That was the first thing in like 30 posts that made sense to me, so I went with that. Also:

And in the Maritime thread Ichabod repeatedly tried to lure me onto the Tasunke bandwagon.

If Tasunke and Ichabod are both wolves, this makes a world of sense. If Tasunke is a wolf, he's a liability right now with the way his play has been so incredibly erratic. It's simple. Shed the liability wolf and get credibility for it. That's a no-brainer decision and a smart play I'd expect Ichabod to make. But for him to defend me if I'm a wolf despite the fact that I was already well into the spotlight at that point? Well that's just sloppy, and Ichabod doesn't do sloppy.

[scooter]

You are good enough of a player to realize that your actions day 2 and night 2 were incredibly suspicious. You would realize this even as a villager, and refrain from making yourself so mislynchable at a critical juntion. Your actions do not speak bad villager, they speak desperate wolf.

Come on novice, I'm operating under a completely different priority here. Sorry I don't do the thing that you do as a villager which is sit back, try not to be suspected, and be generally unhelpful for a few days until finally participating. I saw a situation where the wolves already had the Zak info so it was best if we got to the bottom of it all ASAP so we could make better informed decisions. How is talking about Zak power role fishing? IT'S NOT. The wolves knew he was innocent so they knew he had a power role. Same for Catwalk actually if he's truly innocent, they know he has a power role, so why are we subjecting ourselves to this stupid charade where we have to pretend like the wolves don't know our power-roles? Shutting up IN THAT SITUATION helps the wolves because it denies the village info that the wolves have already figured out. I genuinely can't believe you don't understand this.

[Gaspar]

As far as why I think that scooter made the plays he made despite being as he stated a pretty solid wolf, two reasons really.

First, desperation. When you see Ichabod go down, who I know if I had drawn wolf I'd have been looking at as the ace in the hole, it flusters the plan a bit.

Second, and more significantly, the tinfoil hat brigade was out in full force at the end of day 2/early night 1. As a sane villager, I was definitely afraid that the conspiracy theories and paranoia made for an environment where scooter might be able to wiggle out of his predicament. I know that wolf scooter likes to stir the pot a bit and as such I think you would definitely have seen the environment and tried to take advantage.

I mean, there was serious and believed talk that zakalwe who just delivered a wolf on a platter was participating in some super secret triple blind. I'm pretty sure Catwalk and Rowain are convinced the Secret Service killed JFK. So I'm not at all surprised by scooter's bold play at the end of the day and overnight.

Honestly, on the at best 5% chance scooter's not a wolf he's played such a bad game as a villager that he deserves to be lynched anyway. Decent game as a wolf up til the end of day 2, though.