[Spoilers] Whosit is playing for second

[Whosit]

The way the game decides where to put luxuries continues to confound me. Instead of keeping the capital happy, that extra luxury was sent to Chartreux instead. I had figured that luxuries would only get shuffled when population changed or amount of amenities changed, but I guess it's just kind of random turn to turn. That makes my OCD sad.....  

Pyramids did not have as many hammers invested as I was expected. Played with the numbers and I think I lost the bonus production from Wonders and Happiness (35%). Kept all the production from Magnus because I think Magnus's boost is "real" production. I was surprised, though, because I thought overflow keeps production bonuses if they still apply. This could be a problem when I start building Warriors, because I'm counting on a lot of boosted overflow from Warrior to Warrior....

Moved Pingala out of Bengal and into Bombay, which lost me 8.3 science per turn. Ouch! I'm down to 23 science empire wide.... which makes me even with Korea. I always hate moving Pingala for this reason, but he'll be a lot stronger in Bombay in the long-run, and there's no tech I desperately need in the short-term.

Krill offered open borders.... his Galley found the borders of Burmese, and my boat found his borders, so I accepted. I want to cooperate with China for the time being. I'm convinced that this is a second galley from China, because based on the positioning of the other galley 2 turns ago, no way it could have crossed the sea. This may also mean that China has Open Borders with Korea, but I'm not sure.

I'm still taking a ton of screenshots for archival purposes, but I don't think I'll be plastering as many in my reports for the next few turns unless they are important.




Pyramids coming along nicely. My revised estimates say that they may be complete on Turn 77, so one turn faster than indicated. This assumes that I remember to swap from the wheat farm to the plans hill, which I was supposed to do this turn, and that I still grow on turn 74. My current calculations assume that Bombay remains Content, not Happy, but fingers crossed that it will remain happy at size 7. Spices get improved next turn.

Minor note, but greenline has a warrior hanging around just north of Scarborough Fair. It came in vision when my Builder moved to the hill 2 south of Bengal to mine next turn.

[thrawn]

I was surprised, though, because I thought overflow keeps production bonuses if they still apply. This could be a problem when I start building Warriors, because I'm counting on a lot of boosted overflow from Warrior to Warrior....

The way it works is, if you have 10 raw production and a 50% production boost:
- If you have 15 or more remaining to complete the build you get 15
- If you have between 10 and 15 left you complete the build and get no overflow
- If you have less than 10 left, for example 7, you complete the build and overflow the remainder of the 10, in this case 3. It is as if there is no production boost. Then if the next build has a production boost it would apply on the overflowed amount as well as next turn's production.

So if you have 12 production you'll be putting 18 towards warriors, and will get (t1) 18, (t2) 36, (t3) complete with 8 overflow, (t4) 30, (t5) complete with 2 overflow, (t6) 21, (t7) 39, (t8) complete with 11 overflow, etc.

[Whosit]

I was surprised, though, because I thought overflow keeps production bonuses if they still apply. This could be a problem when I start building Warriors, because I'm counting on a lot of boosted overflow from Warrior to Warrior....

The way it works is, if you have 10 raw production and a 50% production boost:
- If you have 15 or more remaining to complete the build you get 15
- If you have between 10 and 15 left you complete the build and get no overflow
- If you have less than 10 left, for example 7, you complete the build and overflow the remainder of the 10, in this case 3. It is as if there is no production boost. Then if the next build has a production boost it would apply on the overflowed amount as well as next turn's production.

So if you have 12 production you'll be putting 18 towards warriors, and will get (t1) 18, (t2) 36, (t3) complete with 8 overflow, (t4) 30, (t5) complete with 2 overflow, (t6) 21, (t7) 39, (t8) complete with 11 overflow, etc.

Right, that sounds like what I was thinking happens. I think I had a mistaken thought about how that third scenario works, in that boost overflow production would be divided to normal values, and then would get multiplied again. I understand now ALL the bonus production is lost if none of it is used to produce the thing, no matter the circumstances.




With the spices hooked up, every city in the Empire is happy! This will be a huge boost and advantage over my rivals! I know it won't last, as some cities will grow and require more amenities, so new cities will need to get access to new luxuries. Conquering Korea will stretch out the amenities a bit, but obviously more cities are better than less cities.

Not much else of note this turn. Scarborough Fair grew to size 5, so Mo Li Hua's loyalty loss has been stymied a bit. I'm juggling Civics to make sure that Defensive Tactics will finish on Turn 75, which is when I was planning to start walls in Bengal and Burmese, but I think I'm gonna hit the spreadsheets again with my improved understanding of overflow and see if I'll want to tweak that date.

...Although, I think I already goofed it. I just realized I played Turn 73 very quickly, and I don't think I remembered to swap to Defensive Tactics this turn. So no Limes until Turn 76 at the earliest.... Ugh. No biggie. Korea's military hasn't been increasing. I don't think greenline intends to attack me the moment that Friendship ends.

[Whosit]

Luckily the turn came to me before I had to leave for work. Can't share images rn since they aren't on my phone, but nothing too major to report anyway. Bombay is Content while Bengal sits there at +4 amenities.... Maybe the game will reshuffle them next turn? Def an aspect of the game where it would be nice to have the option of manual control. I am going to need more luxuries very soon to keep most of my cities Happy and productive, but no one else has extra luxuries to trade. Krill has 3 luxuries hooked up but no dupes, and I'm not 100% sure if it would be a good idea to trade luxuries with Yongle's China. Then again, Krill is building Audience Chamber in their Gov Plaza, which makes sense.

Got vision on China's second city, Long, which has walls. Was it just for the Engineering boost, or deterrence against Korea? Korea, meanwhile, mined Iron at Duu, and Arirang has a mine where there was forest next to seowon. I think it was a 50 prod chop, so 1/3 of the Ancestral Hall being built. That will probably finish in a few more turns. I expect S. Fair's com hub to finish soon. Duu will finish monument in 4-5 turns, but the other two cities are probably stuck for a while.

With a plan to strike Korea in about a dozen turns, I want to start formalizing my battle plans. Some specifics will be tweaked in the turns before depending on if my warrior overflow math is right or not. I realized Bengal will have 3 rainforests for chopping. If I station warriors there before upgrading, then they can chop after becoming Legions. That should be enough combined to get another Legion out, so my hope is to go in with 6 Legions led by a Great General. If greenline doesn't increase their defenses soon, well.... Bad for Korea.

But I am planning to expect Walls and Swordsmen and a lot of Archers. I think 45 effective strength melee units should be able to tank enough hits to encircle the city, and wipe out any opposition not behind walls.

Time will tell, though. The terrain around S. Fair will make it challenging to quickly put the city under siege, so I need to be ready for the unanticipated.

[Whosit]

OK, some pics from last turn (while I wait lol. I know Chev is very busy now.... but mah turns!).





 




Capital stuck at +2 amenities while Bengal is hoarding an extra luxury, smh.

Uhhh.... I was gonna post my war plans but did the screenshot tag suddenly break?? All my images in my thread are broken now....

Or maybe it's Imgur that's down....

EDIT: changing a bit of the url fixed the broken image. I'm gonna have to go back and fix eeeeeverything, auughhhhh.

[Whosit]

OK, I think everything should be fixed. Grabbed a few new images, too.




Barbs tracked down. To think this remote camp has been causing me so much trouble.




Looks like I may be able to make contact with the Khmer on my way back around the sea. I think that's a new city. I haven't been tracking their stats as closely as the other civs, but I think that puts them at 5, to match me?




Japan settling a ways forward. Makes sense. Whoever gets the next city down is going to control the rest of this region, I think. Hm.... definitely making me reconsider my priorities a bit. But at the moment, expanding via steel still seems the favorable way to go. I will certainly be putting out another wave of Settlers at a later date, of course.




Interesting set of beliefs, but I think it makes sense given CMF's position. Will definitely make Japan harder to crack if I ever try conquest against them.

Seeing that the rest of that river valley may be lost to me is certainly hitting that part of my brain that wants to bring my current plans to a screeching halt in order to lay claim to this territory. However.... it has no new resources that I currently don't have or couldn't get.... well, I think that's it. It's otherwise good land. But if I can take what Korea has, that gives me some pre-developed land, and then I can probably still take that river valley later, one way or another.

As the other players are catching up to my city count, that's the other thing that has me second-guessing my plans. I came into the game intending to REX as long and as hard as I could.... but I think that the realities of my situation have dictated my course. Or at least has me justifying it. I feel like with 5 cities, and how spread out I am, I definitely needed this time to build up some infrastructure and lay down some improvements. I believe that in Civ 6, there's a point where more, unimproved cities, become less useful than fewer, improved ones. I think that the rising costs of Settlers and Builders kind of create that flow. Eventually, Settlers get too expensive for cities without production improvements to build in a reasonable amount of time.

As for war plans.... once things begin, Bengal is the only city that is going to be producing units. The other cities are going to, at least at some point, pre-build Builders in preparation for getting Serfdom. I also want another round of Settlers. I think that whichever happens first will depend on how fast it looks like I'm going to get Feudalism. Probably Builders first. But unless someone is like 1 turn from the Pyramids right now, I'll get that, and all my builders will have 6 charges with Serfdom (or 7 if Liang is in the city). I may only need 2-3 super Builders to improve my existing cities, so I might be able to do a settler/builder push around the same time.

Or I may be getting too ambitious.... we'll see.

Edit: Oh, if I hadn't mentioned it, my capital is happy this turn. I think there's a 1 turn delay on luxury shuffling after a city has grown.

I'm also going for more infrastructure in Bengal than originally planned. I'll have a BIG chop in a few turns, and it's wasted on a Granary into a Warrior. I think I can finangle: Walls, Barracks, AND granary. I realized I don't want to skip the Barracks because it gives me: +1 inherent production, +1 housing (which I want anyway), and since I have an envoy at Preslav, the Barracks will generate +1 more production for units. Which the city is going to make a bunch of.

[Whosit]

Got a 3rd turn in tonight!  

Love the turn pace of this game! I guess that's the advantage of having a small group of players.




Our boys in purple valiantly battle the barbarian scourge in the frozen, barren north. I had actually forgotten that ranged units provide a flanking bonus! Should not be too hard to mop things up here, but wow, this campaign took a lot longer than I was planning. Still, that'll be 50 gold and 2 Era Score.




Burmese is my first city to have a granary. Only took me 76 turns to build one! In SP, granary is usually the second build I have a new city work on, after a monument. But this game has really made me ask "do I REALLY need this right now?" an awful lot.




No longer running Conscription, so I have to pay my troops again. Oh my! However will I afford my THIRD Wonder with these kinds of costs?!




Got some.... friends loitering around Chartreux. Krill is definitely getting more out of our Open Borders (and clearly has OB with Korea), but.... eh. Even a small town like Chartreux is finer than any city in any other land!




Greenline continues to play into my hands by spending all of their money on tiles. Sure, Korea desperately needs the luxuries, but... shouldn't alarm bells be going off? Is it just me, because I know what I'm going to do? I guess from greenline's perspective, my battle power is low (and they know 30 of it is a galley), and I haven't been building any troops for a while. Still... the gold hoard I'm building has gotta look suspicious. I'll be very curious to see what greenline was thinking in their thread after the game.

Then again, maybe greenline is playing 5D chess and has a plan to rally a great defense in 10 turns..... But I'm not so sure. Korea hasn't trained any new troops in about 10 turns themselves. Korea hasn't finished another Civic since getting Political Philosophy.... they've earned 103 culture since then. I'll have to do some more math later but I don't think greenline is a fool. Probably partially researching several civics to set up policy changes like I'm doing. Still, with half of my cultural output, I think I'll have a lot more flexibility on when I want to change policies.




This image is of note only because I was wondering why Khmer were ahead of me in culture, and I suspected that tourism was weighted over culture produced (like total techs completed puts one in a science lead even if someone else has more science per turn). This confirms that (Korea produces more culture per turn than Japan). Though Khmer cultural output should not be dismissed. With Coral Music, Archduke WILL have a hefty culture, and already has 8 civics, more than anyone else but me. Khmer also has 11 techs, so isn't doing too badly on that front, either. I think Archduke will be my strongest opponent.

Fortunately, they're the furthest away.




Since I knew that no one else was going to be able to play a turn tonight, I spent some extra time fiddling with my cities, and realized I could grow Persian more quickly while finishing the Market in the same amount of time! 

I also changed plans at Bengal. Due to this and that (forgetting to swap to Defensive Tactics a turn earlier than I did), my schedule had to be rewritten. I was going to chop the rainforest into Walls this turn with the Limes bonus, but realized that doing that 1 turn before Magnus establishes would be a huge waste. So that chop happens next turn. We'll see if the chop gets doubled like I expect it to.

I was going to send Magnus to Persian to await some chops there, but 1) not sure if I'll be doing that anymore*, and 2) if I keep him at Bengal, he'll boost chops into Legions. So that part of my plan is changing!

*I was going to try and find a way to get the 6 farms I need to boost Feudalism, but honestly, it's probably just going to save 5-6 turns, and I could probably put those builder charges to better use. I still want that farm triangle by Persian at some point, though!

TBH, I could probably have skipped the walls in Burmese and Bengal, but this feels like one of those "just in case" situations where it's worth it. Besides, I want the boost for Engineering. Getting Baths down is going to be huge, if for nothing else but the +1 amenity!

Uh, and I have one Governor Title that I didn't use yet. I'm probably going to use it on Liang for the district production bonus, but I have a few turns until I need it, so may as well hang on "just in case."




There's still a lot of time in the Classical Age, but I will need 33 more Era Score to stay in a Golden Age. It might work out, but I'm honestly not quite sure how I'm going to manage it. I think we'll be closer to 45 turns for Classical than 25, but we'll see. I really want to see Khmer's numbers, since I'm way ahead of everyone else. Oh, sure, it looks like Korea is neck and neck with me, but Pingala establishes in Bombay next turn, and Chartreux finishes its Commercial Hub for +2 gold/science, so I think on Turn 77 my science might be close to 40?

OK, I do need to get to bed real soon, but here's those battle plans I was talking about:




Blue line is the road I intend to build with a Trader just a few turns before declaring war.

So, there should be 3 other legions that just chopped Rainforests, but if the newly created Legion can move same turn, like I think it can, I have no reason to wait to attack. I'll have JUST upgraded all these warriors, so if nothing else, that will be the clear warning to greenline that an attack is coming. I estimate I have 2 turns before Scarborough Fair is heavily reinforced, so speed is of the essence. Besides, with 1-UPT, no reason not to move in with the vanguard as everyone else would get backed up anyway.


 

Green square is Great General. Green for Great! The second line of troops will begin marching in, while the Vanguard starts to encircle the city and fight whatever Korea already has in the area. The Vanguard will be the troops that were trained in Bengal's Barracks, so they will earn XP/Promotions faster, so will hopefully be able to promote-heal before being killed.

Greenline had a warrior in the area a few turns ago, and I expect every city has at least an Archer. Troop deployment info is the critical piece of information I don't have, but with the way greenline is spending their cash, I think they could only manage a single swordsman upgrade right away, and boosted Legions are just gonna smash through those and Archers.

There's the possibility that greenline could tech Machinery.... but even so, wouldn't have the money to upgrade, nor the production to build Crossbowmen, so that's probably not a realistic worry.

My element of surprise lies in that I am pre-building warriors and will upgrade them all at once, so even though greenline will see that I'm increasing my army, hopefully they won't realize by HOW MUCH until it is TOO LATE.

The way things go for me, I feel like this is either going to be an overwhelming success, or become a horrible quagmire. Either way, I hope it's entertaining!

[Whosit]

In all the world, is there a city as fabulous as Bombay?




That's all the wonder building for now... Even at size 7, Bombay is growing like a weed. Which is good....


 

Because the fight over this city isn't done yet. I'm wondering who the new Governor is, and I assume that Pingala was moved back to Scarborough Fair. If that's the case, I'd expect Korea gets a 7 point boost to science and a 6 point boost to culture in 5 turns.


 

But as for MY Pingala.... just look at those yields!




I was surprised that the chop actually grew Bengal immediately, because I thought that doesn't happen. Guess I had just calculated wrong before. Well, this may be my most crowded city, but relief will come in a few turns....




Meeting people out east. Hopefully I can make it a little farther this time.

Other items of note:

Korea finished their Ancestral Hall and China finished their Audience Chamber. So new Governors for both, and opportunity to change policies. Urtin Duu also finished the Monument that was building there, and greenline connected both Marble and Silver, so his cities should all be content now. (I had wanted to write something about the studious but sullen Korean people, lol.)

Japan is nearly broke right now (I think CMF built an Archer) but is working on several Harbors. I learned another new thing due to this game, which is that I can see rival civ's city populations and districts (even in construction) on the trade screen. I guess I had just never bothered to look before.

Otherwise, I think everything is going as expected.

Edit: Oh, poor Japan had their fishing boats pillaged again, so once again down to 0 luxuries.

[Whosit]

I forgot that when the Pyramids finish, any existing Builder gets an extra charge! I guess the one by Bengal could chop the jungle where I'm planning to put the Bath, because:




Look how fast I'm zooming through the tech tree! Almost too fast! I could have skipped Legions and gone straight for Man-at-Arms if I wanted.

But Whosit needs that Era Score!




I think Fet is bullying my scouts again....


 




Met Khmer at last! Honestly surprised I am the first to meet everyone (I'll take the era score though!). I guess Krill must not have found Japan yet. Yeah, double checking, Japan has just recently met Korea. Even Khmer is fairly isolated: Until this turn, they had only met China!

Also, something interesting that the game has 4 east Asian civs and then.... Rome. lol




So, I didn't look at this until after I sent the save, since I was trying to get it to Archduke as quickly as possible. I wasn't quite quick enough, though. If he doesn't send me an offer, next turn I'm definitely going to ask to trade for the Marble. It will be many turns yet until I capture La Venta, as taking out a rival civ is a higher priority and I can't actually do both, sadly. City states are starting to get their walls, too.

Speaking of city states..... Something else I forgot to check.




Two city states have been suzerained, and Krill has Zanzibar's loyalty! Interesting..... Next turn, I need to remember to send my envoy to Hong Kong, just for the era score of being first suzerain. I wasn't really thinking too hard about the city state meta up to this point. I guess one benefit of having Hong Kong is a buffer with Japan on the slim chance that CMF wants to get frisky, and secondly I believe I get all of Hong Kong's map vision, which will be useful.

Anyway, let's talk about the elephant in the room: The Khmer actually have more culture per turn than me!! I don't know the pop of Khmer's capital, but I'm assuming 7. Actually, that's exactly it. Based on total population, and assuming he must have Pingala with Culture boost, AND he has both a monument and shrine in his 3 most developed cities.... it adds up to 28.1. The Khmer will definitely be able to exceed my total culture going forward. I just had a head start. I do plan to put down some number of theatre squares (well, only 1 planned in the capital currently), so I'll need more cities to compete.

Honestly, if I was looking at the current game state, my best course of action is: Conquer Korea, Conquer China, and Conquer Japan in that order. Assuming no one can stop me, I should just be too large for Archduke to stop.

Also of note is the missionary going to China. Is Archduke thinking of a religious victory, or just trying to get some more gold from the founder belief? There's still 1 religion available and I would still like to make a play for it at some point.... But there's a good chance that if Khmer missionaries try to enter my lands, I may have to go into an Always War mode so I can kill them. It would be very embarrassing to lose to a religious victory lol.

EDIT: Oh, learned something interesting about policy card bonuses. At least, limes. So, bonus yields from Happiness only benefit production from tiles or buildings, and some other sources. The +1 for Urban Planning does NOT get this bonus. So I'd been assuming it also doesn't get modified by a policy card. But it seems that it DOES. Ancient Walls in Burmese went from 43 to 72 production invested. That means 29 production, or roughly (hard to know fractions for sure). If UP +1 and 1.2 from happy did not get doubled, Burmese would be doing 26.2. Doubling those bonus values is 28.4. So maybe there was a fraction to my benefit there.

However, something else I noticed when comparing my numbers is that it's possible that the Urban Planning bonus DOES overflow where other bonus production does not? UP bonus overflowing is the only way it makes sense that the wall had 43 prod invested last turn. Very, very interesting.... and not at all confusing to keep track of!

EDIT NOTE TO SELF: As soon as I am done upgrading/training the Legions I'll need, finish researching Apprenticeship just for the +1 mines.

Also, plan city NE of Persian for a 2 Bath (+5) Industrial Zone (Probably owned by Persian).

[Whosit]

Turn 79....




I remembered to offer this trade. I don't know enough about Archduke to have any idea if this is an appealing trade, and Khmer cities with a Holy Site will have 3-4 amenities (for 6-8 population) already, so we'll see. For me, the extra luxury will help keep my bigger cities Happy in the next few turns as they grow. I'll only need to trade until Baths start being built and when I can connect another luxury myself.




I also remembered this! +2 era score, and....




Behold! Wow.... Poor CMF. Not a lot of space for him to go.




Up north.... is the battle almost done??

I didn't grab screenshots, but Burmese has finished its Ancient Wall, so now my western flank is relatively secure. Finishing Drama and Poetry this turn for a policy swap to Agoge, and Bombay and Bengal will be cranking out about 5 warriors over the next few turns. Then... the magic happens.

So, those battle plans:




I'm on track to declare war on Turn 87, just 8 turns away. The two legions up N-NE will chop jungles that turn, which I am hoping will immediately pop a Legion out. If not, I'll make due. So, these 4 Legions will immediately head towards Korean territory. The white line is where I expect my road to go. I was digging through some old images and actually found one of my first trader, and this is the route the game wanted to run between Bombay and Scarborough Fair.




Second turn, my troops will begin encircling the city and engaging whatever defenders greenline has in place, while the 2 Legions back home bring up the rear. Bengal will be training Archers, 2-3, to act as back line support. The Great General will keep up with the vanguard, because they will need the extra movement and strength. Battering Ram can be left behind if there are no walls. If defenses are relatively light, I'll take the time to pillage all improvements and districts for the yields.

Once I take Scarborough Fair, assuming I haven't lost more than 1 Legion, I think Korea's turns are numbered. I don't even need to bother attacking Mo Li Hua, because without the loyalty pressure from S. Fair, it will revolt in a matter of turns. Korea's newest cities are too underdeveloped to quickly produce new troops, so I expect that greenline will either be hurrying walls or swordsmen at the capital. Unless greenline completely abandons Scarborough Fair, I'm hoping I kill enough defenders there that Arirang won't be too hard to take. With Korea's major cities under my control, mopping up and eliminating greenline should be fairly easy. That's the plan, anyway.

I'm not making any concrete plans beyond this because I would not be able to predict what turn 89 will look like. Greenline should be able to bring reinforcements by then, and a lot will depend on what troops were already stationed in Scarborough Fair and how many. Korea's military power has held steady so far, and hopefully greenline will interpret my walls as purely defensive, despite Bengal's somewhat provocative Encampment placement. I expect to have SOME intel, because my Trader will provide vision into Korean territory as it moves. I suppose there's the chance that greenline declares war on me to stop my trade route, but I don't peg him as the type.

This war MUST succeed. I've invested a lot of resources into this. However, in the worst case scenario where I have to completely abort the attack, I can at least march a few Legions north to take La Venta (it's currently building me a Holy Site just where I wanted it!).

Now, if you will allow me to opine on Civ 6 game theory.... which I've developed only recently.  

Like I've said before, when playing SP I don't pay THIS much attention to the mechanics, but I now definitely believe that the rising cost of Settlers leads to a natural push and pause to expansion. While planning out future moves, I considered having Persian build a Settler. Even with the Colonization policy, it would have taken nearly 30 turns, especially as Bombay churned Settlers out and increased the cost. With the cost of upcoming Settlers being 200-300, I believe a city needs to produce at least 26 production after modifiers to reasonably train settlers at this point. Which means I do think that 5 cities is kind the sweet spot to pause and build up infrastructure.

This leaves me only mildly worried that anyone else will quickly overtake me in city count. In fact, when War starts with Korea, my capital will be making Settlers, not soldiers! I will also be prepping a wave of Builders that will finish when Serfdom is available, so ideally in a dozen turns I'll have, like, 19 new build charges to play with (just 3 builders!). If I can gobble up Korea, take La Venta, and plop down 2-3 more cities of my own, I'll be in a commanding position. Only Khmer could challenge me at that point.

That, or my hubris.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that greenline is building a Monument in his capital, so I think he is still not terribly concerned about what the next dozen turns will hold.