GvG

[Lurker Wyrm]

Shouldn't we start adding some NF skills to the "must-have" list?

Maybe once we know what they do. There are also some skills from the previous campaigns that will be added/removed because of skill changes, so that can be put off until we've had a chance to experiment a bit more.

About the Guild Hall: I've seen matches on all 4 of the new isles so I can tell you a bit about them.
- Solitude: This one seems the most balanced/basic of the 4. There's a teleporter that goes out of the GL area but not in. The back way is pretty long but leads almost directly to the GL and his buddies.
- Wurm: Pretty wide open area, north has the flag stand, south has a shrine that you cap similarly to AB (i.e. stand there and the arrows move) which gives +120 max health.
- Flooded/Uncharted: Very easy to gank. The back gate has only 1 NPC archer before you get to the area with the GL and it's a short distance between the 2 gates.
- Corrupted: Standard layout, only one that has no closed gates and no thief, similar to what ours doesn't have.

[KingOfPain]

What about a list of NF elite skills location/boss you guys have come across so far, in a new thread? Save most of us having to spend too much time surfing the net.

KoP

[Roland]

Also as far as Dervishes go, they might be better suited to utility work. Ebon Dust Aura is a really easy way to have an almost neverending blind on someone, especially if you use it on a ranger primary and send something like Called Shot out. For those who don't know, Ebon Dust Aura adds blind to any attack skill you use. Short Duration, but it could take over the air elementalist's blind bot role. As for a dervish primary, well, I'm still working on that. I think they might find more of a niche as a frontline healer, keeping enchants on themselves for the wind prayers heals and throwing out deep wounds (via Wounding Strike), but I'll get back to you guys on that.

I certainly could be wrong, but I think you underestimate the powerful offensive capabilities of the Dervish. They can do a great deal more with their Enchantments (and even without them) than simply healing. They can be frontline tanks, easily the equal of a well-equipped Warrior. They can deal AoE damage with their Scythe, and with the casting / removal of their Enchantments, as well as spread numerous conditions to foes, via targeting or AoE. They can heal, too, but they'll certainly never replace a Monk, or even a Ritualist, and there are definitely better uses for their Enchantments than simple healing via Mystic Twister.

Reaper's Sweep is another Deep Wound-inflicting skill. Strong damage boost, with Deep Wound on targets <50% Health. A bit more conditional than Wearying Strike, but without the issue of suffering from Weakness afterwards (although that can be countered via Plague Touch, or a Mesmer Condition transfer skill, or even a Monk, not to mention Avatar of Melandru counters this). Same Energy cost, but 8s recharge as opposed to 2s. Although Wounding Strike has only a 3s recharge, same Energy cost, but also can cause Bleeding if you've been stripped of your Enchantments. Again, somewhat situational, but not as bad as Wearying Strike.

Oh, Ebon Dust Aura causes Blindess for up to 9 seconds at 12 Earth Prayers, not 8. It does require an Earth weapon, however, so it would need to be combined with some Earth Prayers Enchantment that makes your damage Earth, or an Ebon weapon of some kind.

The Avatars can be very powerful when used properly, and certainly don't lend themselves to being a "niche frontline healer". Lyssa can devastate heavy Skill-use builds, especially casters, while Melandru can virtually shut down spikes and Condition-heavy groups on that character. Balthazaar is great for frontline tanking, and chasing down runners, while Grenth is great at countering W/Mo, Dervishes, and any other Enchant-heavy character. Dwayna... well, healing when you use a skill, but not overly powerful, IMHO, although it is good at self-Hex removal.

With proper support, a Dervish can take out any single character from a fight, either through killing them or tying them up long enough for the rest of the team to mop up. They are much better at tanking than Assassins (who are not a bad class, when played right; learn not to treat them like a Warrior and you'll do fine), and are built to stand toe-to-toe with just about anyone. Warriors are about the only thing that gives them real trouble, although casters can be a PITA too since they don't have any interrupts.

Don't count out Dervishes so easily. I think you'll be surprised at just how powerful they can be.

[FoxBat]

Well, with the recent upgrades, PvP-only characters can be taken seriously now. They're actually better suited for the job than PvE characters (strange notion, I know!) Alot of my playing time centered around getting my PvE chars optimized for PvP with max stat upgrades and such, which is thankfully no longer necessary. If I limit myself to 1 fresh PvE char per campaign, and additionally am not wasting time farming, I can probably manage to rejoin you guys now and then. (A new vid card helps to, running so smoothly now it feels like an arcade game.)

I'm mainly interested in PvP this time around, and would love to join you guys for GvG, or even HA/TA. I have all prophecies non-elites, all proph warrior and necro elites, and a smattering of other elites, and just picked up factions for $30. Dunno if/when I'm getting nightfall, I haven't been following the hype so I'm not particularly turned onto it. (Factions had the "asian" thing going for it...") I might consider just the PvP edition after we see how many skills from it become staple. Unfortunately Wed is absolute worst night for me this semester, although that will be over in a month and a half or so. Probably any other night is OK.

No-one touched anything on my account, so I'm taking it back, you ungreatful scallywags Still the crappy weapon upgrades are free if anyone is interested, as I'll stick mostly to PvP chars, I won't need most of them.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Glad to have you, even if it's on the semi-roster.

I had this pretty weird notion last night about a build that uses 3 Paragons, all running "Incoming!" as their elite. As you may/may not know, it's a really potent elite, halving the damage players take. Downside is it lasts about 6 seconds and has a recharge of 20. If we've got about 3 people chaining them together, we should be able to keep it up almost indefinitely. That was one thought I had.

Another was that I was watching a GvG match just to see what one of the new halls was like and ran across a warrior/assassin build I like. A lot.
"You're All Alone!"
Signet of Malice
Dash
Barbarous Strike
Gash
Final Thrust
Heal Sig
Res Sig

This is a really nice build that can take care of itself fairly well because of the way "You're All Alone!" works with the signet.

Also as far as Dervishes go, they might be better suited to utility work. Ebon Dust Aura is a really easy way to have an almost neverending blind on someone, especially if you use it on a ranger primary and send something like Called Shot out. For those who don't know, Ebon Dust Aura adds blind to any attack skill you use. Short Duration, but it could take over the air elementalist's blind bot role. As for a dervish primary, well, I'm still working on that. I think they might find more of a niche as a frontline healer, keeping enchants on themselves for the wind prayers heals and throwing out deep wounds (via Wounding Strike), but I'll get back to you guys on that.

I'm also looking forward to trying out Glimmer of Light in a GvG setting.

[Hawkmoon]

So I spent a bit of time today touring the new guild halls - just ran around them, didn't watch any matches on them (that's next on my list).

Just some impressions on the aesthetics:

Uncharted - Nice looking, but it felt cramped, like there wasn't very much space to run around. (and if it's so small, why the heck should it be uncharted? it ought to take all of 25 seconds to make a map of that flyspeck) Overall, thumbs down.

Corrupted - Eeeeewwww, eeeeewww, ewwwwwww!!!!! I HATED this one. Ugly, like holding your meetings inside a giant bruise. Yuck. I couldn't stand having that for our GH. Thumbs waaaaaay down.

Wurm - Kind of up in the air on this one. I didn't really like the scenery too much, but the layout was kind of neat, with different levels that would make things interesting (and permit archers to rain death from above!). I'd be okay with this one. Thumbs marginally up.

Solitude - Ooooooooh, pretty! Look at all the shiny tiles! This one is gorgeous. I'd be quite happy to move here from our frozen den. Just for aesthetic reasons alone, I like this GH very much. The layout looked pretty straightforward for GvG, too. We could probably learn to do quite well on this map. Thumbs decidedly up!

Just for the heck of it, I'll also mention the Factions-themed Isle of Meditation - it's bloody gorgeous too. I could hang out there in great contentment. The downside is that the map is very complex, to the extent that until we get a lot more GvG experience, I think we'd have a hard time with it.

[Seijin]

That's on my list of things to do, but I keep forgetting to traverse through the new halls. :mad:

Anyways, I keep trying to update the NF elites and locations.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Just a note about Isle of Meditation: the Vile Miasma environmental effect is in it, which is the same as the one on Shing Jea in whatever mission it was. It's only in the upper area where the obelisk stand is, but it's a pain (-5 degen, spreads like disease, have to wait it out aka no way to remove it). It's also a lot smaller than Uncharted Isle in terms of how much room you have to work with. This is the hall TNE has, so I've got a pretty decent amount of experience playing on it. Because of all the bends and places there are to hide from arrows, it tends to favor builds that don't always require a line of sight.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Y'know, I know people are still enamored with the PvE of Nightfall, but don't you think it's time we started playing GvG again? For now we can stick with the core professions and work in some NF skills, before we start going off on weird tangents with the new classes. I have been looking at the new classes and elites and have a vague idea of what I like so far.

[Hawkmoon]

I'd be happy to GvG again - I was under the impression that we wanted to make some decision about possibly obtaining a new guild hall, since we seem to be having, how shall I put it... not so great luck with the Frozen Isle? And none of us are excessively enamored with it, anyway, scenery-wise.

So, do we want to make any serious suggestions about a new hall? Maybe a new thread to vote, with some Knowledgeable Commentary about the new isles from someone who's seen GvG matches on them all? (Wyrm, that means you!)

Regardless, I'll be online Wednesday evening - ready for GvG, if others are.