[SPOILERS] scooter - Zara Yakob

[Jabah]

I have 6 Floodplain for both of them.

Also the 1N will leave 2FP free for a city south instead of leaving 1 in the North and 1 in the south.

[scooter]

I have 6 Floodplain for both of them.

Also the 1N will leave 2FP free for a city south instead of leaving 1 in the North and 1 in the south.

This is something I noted as this discussion got going, and if I do change, this will be what sways me. I'll probably try an alternate dotmap this afternoon and see how a move would affect other city sites.

[scooter]

Notes for Strike:

Tech

Currency will finish in a couple turns. I'd like to make a run at Code of Laws, but I'll have to run through the cheap religious techs first (myst/poly/priest I think). I haven't had the chance to nag TT to find out if he wants Confucianism (doubt Moogle would chase another religon) with his prophet, so I'm going to hope for the best. If you see Confucianism finish, redirect towards Literature (Great Library).

Expansion

I think I've made the current founding plans pretty clear in the last few posts... First is en route, second will finish in a few turns. If you've followed the debate over the second city, I've decided Jabah's site is best after all, so go ahead and found 1 North of the sign that's actually there. It spares two floodplains for another city in the south, which has won me over. Anything with FP is great on a food starved map like this.

Diplo

You can pretty much ignore this all week... I noted in the IT thread that I wouldn't respond til Friday or Saturday, so this will be expected. I did tell them if it was urgent to PM you, otherwise you should be able to ignore this.

Builds

Workers + Settlers. I'll leave you some flexibility here... I just queued up a barracks in Blur so that it can grow a bit, but for the most part I need to keep pushing out settlers. After those two spots fill in, I'd like to backfill the corn spot just to the east of my capital (though I doubt that'll happen in the five turns I'll miss).

I think that should about wrap it up...

[scooter]

Managed to "borrow" internet access for a few minutes, so a quick diplo update. Strike, this is mostly for your benefit - so you know I am checking in with TT on if he's going to challenge my claim on Code of Laws:

Dear scooter, master of predictions.

It appears to me that I never got around to responding to your message by email. If my memory serves me correctly, we chatted on gmail for a while so I have not completely ignored you!

I noticed your warrior on my borders this turn, and I am glad that you managed to reach me unharmed, there have been many warriors around that area, who are seeking to destabilise my Government through the assassination of my military units!

I agree on your assumption of your position, and I have also had good relations with SleepingMoogle so far. Hopefully we can all work together to secure peaceful co-operation between our nations for the foreseeable future.

If there is anything I can do to help your nation, please do not hesitate to contact me

Chancellor Twinkletoes of the Germano-British Republic

Twinkletoes,

Well I think my prediction streak is starting to run dry, as evidenced by Sullla catching me today. If I can stay near the top I'll be happy... I totally forgot that later on it expands to 4 games a day - had I known that I might have saved my Joker until there were 4 to predict, which would be much more logical. I feel stupid now . Aaaaanyways...

Glad I got there! I have super limited internet access this week (I'm *cough* borrowing *cough* it now), so Strike actually played that turn, but glad to hear we officially have contact now. I met Sandover officially a couple turns ago, so Bob is the only player I need contact with now. It's a shame my scout in the south died, or else I might have gotten there by now. Anything interesting happening on your part of the world?

It's ironic you contact me because I wanted to send you a message, and was going to tonight, only to see you beat me to it! I wanted to ask you about religions... I'm assuming you have a prophet coming soon from the Oracle right? I'll just lay my cards down on the table so to speak - I'd like to make a run at Code of Laws, and I'd like to find out from you that I won't get two turns away and you bulb CoL or something . If you've got your mind set on it, there's probably not much I can do about it, but I'd rather find out now than later if that makes sense. Hope you don't mind the question!

Thanks!
scooter

[scooter]

Just realized I never posted my other correspondence with Sandover over the last 4 or 5 days, so I'll do that now. Most important fact is that Sandover won't chase Confucianism, he'd rather run at Theology:

Dear Scooter,

Thank you for the map. I do not have direct visibility on any of the terrain pictured. Nevertheless, I strongly believe that my scout is located to the immediate west of the hills you can barely spot at the bleed-through. If you send your unit one tile westwards I should be able to spot it on turn 56. Keep me updated on your movement.

My best guess at this point is that SleepingMoogle got both Buddhism and Judaism, while Bobchillingworth founded Hinduism. Are you going for your own religion? I was considering grabbing Christianity but at this point other priorities have kind of ruined that idea for me.

As for C&D there are many mysteries, but none of them burning. I had a mess trying to guesstimate your research in the early years, but I figure I'll find out what you were up to once I've won the game.

Regards,

Pharaoh Sandover of Egypt

Sandover,

I'm attaching an updated screenshot for my warrior movement this turn - hopefully I'll run into you shortly... I think your guess is probably a good one about SleepingMoogle, because he heavily emphasized the religious part of the tree early on... Odd that TT didn't get a religion though (since he got Oracle), but he must've been behind on that path. I actually am probably going to make a run at Confucianism, but I AM afraid of a prophet bulb...

Hah, I actually switched my research early on ... Was sorta hoping I'd screw with someone's C&D (thought that wasn't the primary goal), so sounds like I was successful.

Looks like you had a bit of a score jump! Did you finish the Gardens already?

scooter

Dear Scooter,

My Warrior is currently two tiles directly south of yours. I'll make sure to initiate in-game contact once I have the game again.

You don't need to worry about any competition for Confucianism on my end, as Theology is where I'd be heading. Trying to find out if either Twinkletoes or SleepingMoogle is thinking the same thing, as both of them will eventually generate Prophets by virtue of their wonders. Twinkletoes will surely use his for a bulb as there's no shrine for him to create. SleepingMoogle probably got other priorities, but I figure there's no harm in asking.

Score jump? No, not the Gardens. Not yet, anyway. I ordered some palm trees but they are yet to arrive from Black Mesa. Got a new tech last turn though, and figure there was some population growth as well.

Can't think of anything else for now, but lets keep in touch.

Regards,

Sandover

Sandover,

Well we have officially met in-game now, thanks for coordinating to make that happen. I'll keep heading west to meet TT now... Do you have in-game contact with Bob yet? I can't remember if you do or not, but he's the only person I cannot yet contact. If you do, would you be okay with granting me permission to contact him? No rush - I won't be doing any diplo after this until I get back Friday/Saturday. If you don't have contact with him yet, well then nevermind .

I wouldn't be surprised if TT goes for it, but I'll give it a shot anyways. I'd be researching Code of Laws in the not-so-distant future anyways, so it doesn't hurt. Gotta think Moogle will use his on a shrine since he's already got two religions, but we'll see. I would think grabbing three would just give him a big target on his back.

Yeah I didn't think it was the gardens, but figure it can't hurt asking, and yes I'll definitely keep in touch.

scooter

[scooter]

Eh why not, one more diplo update - figured I'd run the religion thing by SleepingMoogle:

SleepingMoogle,

Haven't talked in a while, so figured I'd ring you up and see how life is in Celtic lands? I finally met Twinkletoes and Sandover officially in game in the last week, so just have to meet Bob now. It's a shame my southern scout died awhile back, otherwise I might have met him already by now. Thank you again for arranging contact with TT and Sandover, it made finding them much easier!

I actually have a question for you regarding your future plans... It might be a tad intrusive, but I think you'll understand the nature of my question. I'm sure you're probably about due for a Great Prophet shortly, and I guess you could say I have a strong curiosity of what your plans are regarding this prophet..? I would like to make a run at Code of Laws and nab Confucianism, but I would be pretty disappointed if I got 2 turns away only to see it get lightbulbed by a prophet . Do you have any plans for more religions, specifically Confucianism? If you have your mind set on getting it, there's likely nothing I can do about it, but I'd rather find out now than later, if that makes sense.

Thank you!
scooter

[Strike700]

BTW the early religion prereqs are not required for CoL. currency and writing unlocked it, its due in 6 turns.

[Strike700]

Another settler Finished. Changed blur from a barracks to a library. Figured since there was some commerce improvments it'd be better in the short term. The settler in the cap finished and headed for the Jabah site. 2 more are queued up. Founded the city just to the west began work on a granary.

Now I looked at the demographics and Timmy's power is spiking up, he could be gearing up for barbs, but i'd keep an eye on it.

[scooter]

Good stuff Strike. Good news about Code of Laws - I thought it seemed odd that I'd have to research those old religious techs - didn't remember doing that in the past... When I checked ingame I should have shift-clicked instead of just clicking CoL to see if anything else was required. Probably a good call on the library, and the settler and granary were perfect as well. I'll keep an eye on Timmy's power - might send him a (casual) message about it... Or I might try to ask for a NAP - just play the "seeing as the game has progressed now" speel or something like that. I'll think about it.


Got some responses via diplo, and I'm pretty sure Code of Laws will be ours. First, here's my conversation with SleepingMoogle:

Hey there scooter,

It is good to hear from you again. Congratulations on successfully contacting Germany and Egypt! That mountain pass must have been as tough a route for your scout as it was for ours, and traversing it is a feat worthy of praise. Hopefully your communication with both nations is proceeding amiably.

Time has been fairly well to the Celtic people. Barbarian incursions remain an annoyance, although our Archers seem to welcome the opportunity to improve their skills. Their reputation seems to be spreading amongst the tribes, as few seem willing to directly engage our defenses anymore these days. Unfortunately one of our scouts trying to find the civilization west of the Khmer did appear to have been killed by barbarians, so the lands are still far from save. We are hopeful that the scout that originally established contact with Germany and Egypt will be more successful.

As to your question, you may hear rumors of a new religion being founded in the north, however it will not be Confucianism as you might expect. The Prophet brought with him the teachings of Christianity instead, which was happily adopted by the citizens of Tolosa. While we would look to improve general awareness of Celtic law amongst our citizenry eventually, at this point everyone seems content enough that crime numbers are sufficiently low not to make this a priority. Indeed, animosity looks to be aimed mostly at the barbarians looking to steal from our lands!

If you are intending to unlock the secret of the Code of Laws, then we will not stop you from doing so. While the Celts are proud of their religious diversity, we don't necessarily feel that we need to claim to have founded every single religion ourselves. It is always possible that further religions might develop amongst our people, but the efforts of our researchers are currently focused elsewhere.

-SleepingMoogle

SleepingMoogle,

Congratulations on landing Christianity! Your people must be the most religious people in the universe, unlike the poor heathens that reside to your south . Thank you for letting Confucianism go, Ethiopia greatly appreciates it!

I had the same problem - my scout died just west of Khmer as well... I'm trying to get ahold of Bob via an intermediary, but I haven't gotten an okay yet. Hopefully I'll be able to meet up with him ingame soon, he is the last on my list to contact.

Good luck in fighting off barbs - legends of your famous archers have even reached Ethiopian borders!
scooter

Kind of a goofy/cheesy response back from me, but I wasn't sure what to write... Didn't want to just say "thx 4 teh info kbye" so I sent that, which wasn't much better. Moogle's founding of Christianity seems odd, I'd think a shrine would be more helpful - to start spreading religion. I think the play there has to be Apostolic Palace, but putting such a big target on his back seems like a bad idea.

Now the conversation with Twinkletoes, which was much more interesting:

Scooter,

I am sure you'll get your groove back on the prections, you always seem to!

At the moment nothing much is going on on my side of the world, though I am keeping my eye out for War Chariots if you get my drift. Sandover can be a very grumpy bunny sometimes!

You would be correct that the odds are stacked in favour of me getting a Prophet from the Oracle, and if I am lucky, I would love to bulb a religion of my own, unfortunately it seems that SleepingMoogle has used his Great Prophet to take out his THIRD religion! That is just too greedy and that disappoints me. I do not think that my techs will allow me to bulb Code of Laws, so I may have to save him for a Golden Age should some War Chariots come a calling!

I am not too keen on tit-for-tat diplomacy, I believe in genuinely helping those I trust and being a fair and loyal ally. I see yourself as someone I can work with. I am also on relatively good terms with bobchillingworth of Rome and would love for us three to work together, as much as we can in a NTT game. I believe that we share a neighbour in SleepingMoogle (the religion stealer) and that if we three could work together, we would be guaranteed to always share a neighbour with a friend.

Of course, there is only so much we can do in such an early game and no trade routes as of yet, but I would just like to show you the kind of diplomat I am, and how you can expect to deal with me - forthright and fair.

If there is anything you would like to discuss, do not hesitate to contact me!

Twinkletoes

Twinkletoes,

Glad to hear you have faith in my predictions! Looks like I eeked out a lead again today, now I've just got to hope Sullla's Joker Day doesn't spoil it for me .

I'm sorry to hear things are less-than-perfect with Egypt... If you don't mind me asking - what kind of issues are you running into with him? I haven't talked that much with Sandover yet - mostly just exchanged pleasantries... Not that much to talk about since we're on opposite corners of the world. Do you think he has aggressive intentions? I thought Moogle taking a third religion was sort of... interesting, I expected a shrine from him.

Your nation indeed does seem very fair and forthright in diplomacy - don't think I haven't taken note of it! I would definitely be willing to work with you to some extent, although at this stage options are very limited like you said. If you have suggestions though, by all means let me know. Do you have a strong relationship with Bob then? And have you met him in-game? I'd like to contact him, but I need someone to serve as an intermediary... I asked Sandover, but I have not heard back yet from him, so I don't know if he is planning to grant that or not. My starting scout got eaten just west of Timmy's land so I was never able to make it to Rome.

Well, good luck with avoiding those pesky War Chariots!
scooter

Lots there. Bolded a lot of things that I thought were interesting... He dropped LOTS of hints that things are .. pretty bad with Sandover. Sounds like he is annoyed with Moogle for swiping religions like I thought would happen. Basically he's got what sounds like an enemy on one side and someone he doesn't care for on the other. I think he's screwed longterm, but we'll see. Depends on if I decide to do anything about it...

If things DO go sour with those two, I think TT is toast. Knowing what I know of each of their abilities - Sandover is an immortal player and TT is a Noble/Prince player, AND Sandover has a great UU right now and TT is essentially UU-less. It's just a mismatch. Now if Bob intends to work with TT like it sounds like - Praets would definitely turn the tables on that tussle. Should be fun to watch play out, I'd really like to see war break out over there to slow everyone down - has a much bigger effect in no tech trading. I'll probably casually prod Sandover about his relationship with TT whenever he writes back. I'm interested to understand what it is that's caused things to go sour - there's not much that could do that at this stage shy of threatening each other's borders or something. Fun stuff to speculate about.

[scooter]

Well diplo continues to be interesting. Got this VERY interesting message from Sandover, short and to the point:

Dear Scooter,

You may hereby contact Bob. Just don't turn him against me, ok?

It seems Moogle did indeed decide to grab Christianity. I'm at a loss as to how that is a good call, but I guess we'll see what he's up to in time. Getting Hinduism off of Bob is probably the way to go from here, but I shouldn't bore you with my religious desires.

Got any game plan you're following? Having two opponents between us on each side I figure there's no use for us to rally against each others. Maybe not ever. That sounds like a good reason to work together, even if we only have limited opportunity to do so. Intelligence gathering/sharing comes to mind as a useful tool, that is likely to benefit us both, if we can establish such cooperation. Let me know what you think.

Regards,

Pharaoh Sandover of Egypt

First he's allowing me to contact Bob, which was nice. More important though is the third paragraph, which has summed up my feelings so far as well - that we basically can't be enemies even if we wanted to because of the geography... I've wanted to befriend him for that reason - if there's no way to be enemies with the guy furthest away, might as well turn him into a friend and share information freely. So I definitely pounced on this... I sent him this:

Sandover,

Thank you for allowing me to contact him - I'll send him a message when I get a chance. Yeah I thought the right play for Moogle was a shrine... Maybe you can make a run at Taosim? Might be a bit further away then what you had in mind though. Confucianism should be mine, provided I don't get any crazy surprises from Timmy or Bob. I'd offer a missionary or something, but it would probably get to your land just in time for rifles .
Well my current gameplan is expand expand expand... Was a bit late getting my fourth city, but my fifth settler is out and two more are in production. I'm probably only middle of the pack right now expansion-wise, so I intend to fix that now. On a more international level - I'm mostly trying to identify friends, enemies, and neutrals right now .

I've actually been thinking the same thing as you - that as players on opposite corners of the map it's probably pretty safe to say that we can't really be enemies even if we wanted to. No tech trading DOES limit a lot of our options, but fair resource sharing as well as info sharing like you mentioned are both things that can be useful. A closer relationship also would also allow both of us to be a little more "free" with things we say - less fear that things will get passed on behind our backs.

I'd be very interested in agreeing to something like this... I don't think we need to draft up a list of "tenets" or anything like that, but if you'd prefer that we can do that. Any more thoughts from you on the subject?

As a sign of good faith - Twinkletoes seems pretty convinced that you are targetting him in the near future... I don't know if you said something that pissed him off or what happened, but I get the strong impression that he doesn't like you. How did that happen?

scooter

I shared more info than I needed to which was very intentional. If I can lock him up as an "ally," I could have basically an extra pair of ears on the other side of the world, and he would have the same. Looking more long-term, it'd be nice to lock up one other player, so in case of war, hopefully none of the three of us would ever have to war alone.

So for speculation purposes, I'm going to assume this basically develops into an "alliance" of sorts with Sandover (putting it in quotes since it's not like we can do much together in this game)... So if we do hunt for a third member and try to split the world in three, here are the prospects:

Twinkletoes
This is the least likely. He and Sandover don't like each other, and I don't think Sandover has any intention of allowing him to live any longer than Rifles. Probably not even that long... I'll remain friends with him as best as I can, as there's no reason not too, but I'll probably sort of downplay his talks of a 3-way alliance with Bob. Plus I don't even know that Bob is actually on board with that sort of thing, as I haven't talked to him yet.

SleepingMoogle
Possibly, but I think his opening has been weak so far - I can't see him as a major player in this game at this point... The big religious push has hamstrung him, it sounds like he's struggled with barbs, and he's lagging behind in founding cities. Plus he's really close to me, so I'm putting this down as a "probably not."

Timmy
Pretty much an unknown to me honestly. This is a decent possibility geographically, but his messages have always been pretty short and sparse, and I don't know how I'd even begin to try to cultivate him as an ally. Plus if I'm going to expand to either Celtic or Khmer lands, I'd probably lean towards Khmer, as I would think he'd have better land being on the more fertile strip than Moogle would have in the north. Mixed feelings on this one...

Bobchillingworth
The one I haven't talked to yet... Total unknown to me. Geographically he'd be perfect. If Sandover were to expand east into TT's land, that would make it easy for Bob and I to carve up Timmy's land.

Well that was some fun speculation. Apologies for the long post - that was basically just a brain dump. Might post a bit more tonight, but I'm not sure yet... Depends on if I get around to sending Bob a message.