Bearing the flag proudly, Sabathiel of the Bannors [SPOILERS]

[Mr. Yellow]

Also I choosed guerilla over woodsman because first, it provided a higher bonus and secondly there's a lot of hills in the area not just in the forest, but the desert overall (I didn't consider that woodsman II needed Hidden paths to be unlocked though). In addition he is gonna be a prime fighter of the empire, not just some lowlife scout that might as well be eaten by a spider.

Anyway, Nyktorion did settle down, grabbing the rest of the river.



Poor choice Nyktorion, poor choice. I need that food to cottage the area efficently. Needless to say, this will have consequences. I'll get the complete exhange up next time as well as my plans on how to deal with it. Food sacrificed to get the monument done next turn.

Also, just now i've realised a few mistakes i've done. First of all, Trinity was supposed to be working on a market once Festivals got done. Secondly i was so obsessed improving Trinity that i didn't think that it might be better to get a mine up at Vallus.

Will have to correct that next turn.



Little happening in the capital, though another moment by me in that the skeleton could move in range of Hampshire and interrupt him. Moved him to the other river hill i SHOULD have gone to in the first place.



Little to see south. Though there has to be a new civilization around somewhere. Mardoc maybe?

Small notes:
Irgy, 7 points.
Mardoc, 23 points.
Nyktorion, 6 points....that darn city next to me.
Thoth switched off from hammers a turn ago. Apparently it was a one turn something.

[Mr. Yellow]

Right, seeing Nyktorion approaching, ready to take the rest of the river was the least i needed.

Considering i had a bard a turn ago, i decided to first threaten him with overwhelming culture.

[COLOR="Cyan"]I have noticed your settling part near my eastern border and frankly it upsets me.

Though i have no wish to continue expanding east i will warn you not to settle on that hill or anywhere near the border, as i consider that river my territory.

This is my land and i will make an example of that. You may have noticed that i gained a bard in event logs, which i'm currently holding as i've yet to decide what to do with him. Though if you settle down i will culture bomb it!
Go back, less you see yourself with one city less or at least one at a much worse condition than initially thought.


Sir Yellow, having second thoughts of your true intentions[/COLOR]

The problem with that though is that it might not be the right approach. Nyktorion apparently wasn't expecting to see me this close (even though i told him earlier that i had expansion plans the the west of where we met) and it's possibly he could decide to turn back. The area certainly looks less attracting with 2 flood plains less.

In addition it would be easy to call my bluff. Check the culture graph for example and you would see the sudden rise, meaning i've used him.

So i sent a friendlier message soon after.

[COLOR="Cyan"]OK, maybe the outburst is unjustified and that you just saw my land right now.

I've had a little dispute regarding border agreements with Sciz/Though and had to give up valuable land because of it. Seeing you just appearing seemingly ready to grab the rest of the flood plains annoys me so damn hard.

So don't take it like we're enemies now, but i will not look kindly on you grabbing the rest of the river.[/COLOR]

And the response:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Indeed, last turn was the first time I saw your borders; I have to say that I am surprised, I would have expected you further away. Also, the current location of my settling party is where I wanted a city this turn.

To be direct: I would still prefer to found my city there. I hear that you are constrained by Thoth; however, I have constraints as well (Ocean, Mountains, Tundra and a barbarian city), which I don't even have the cance to negotiate with. These make it important for me to get this city, and with it, at least the two flood plains west of it.

I recall us talking about having a critical eye towards the Malakim's growth a bit more than 10 turns ago. So of course, I'd best like to see you give me that part of the river, and take more land in the runaway civ's direction instead. Having seen a taste of runaways in FFH PBEMs I and II, I would certainly be supportive of moves that shift the Bannor/Malakim land balance in your favor.

Another thing to note is that with this city, it should not take too long until we get a trade connection, maybe that can help in some way, as well (for instance, as mentioned earlier, we have a surplus silk up for trade)?

That being said, do you see any concrete peaceful way that would still make the line between the tiles 2W and 1W of my settling troop our border?[/COLOR]

Ugh, no thanks. The flood plains are what makes the area good. I need that food to cottage it efficently. Also the way he points to turn my attention to the other side and to even try to negotiate peaceful border resolutions of an area i consider mine pisses me off!
So he settled down, which i clearly told him i wouldn't ignore.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Really, suprised? Remember the 2nd message i sent you? I wanted then to border the area we met on, cause i was planning then to take that western area.
Secondly, those flood plains were what made this 2nd city location good in the first place. You just going on and grab them anyway without really thinking what the neighbour (who's been there many turns now) thinks of that, makes me consider it an act of aggression.

So no, i refuse to go into any agreements regarding that river.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Yes, I am surprised; I was rather imagining the desert as what you wish to be your long-term border, rather than it being already an essential ingredient of your second city.

Anyway, I am afraid that there is no immediate solution for our conflict then. You need the river for your second city, and I need it to have settling space. We both need the site and neither of us wants to give it up, so we have a conflict here.

However this conflict will finally be resolved, I hope that it will be in a way that won't make both of us losers and the scoreboard leader (i.e. Thoth) its true winner.
[/COLOR]

Again he tries to point at Thoth. What about WK who follows right behind?

Anyway, there will be consequences for such aggression. Question is what to do to get hold of the river.
There's 2 options; military or cultural.

One way to win this is to get to Bronze Working and then straight to Order (Philosophy - Way of the Wise - Orders from Heaven) for the priest. Bless + Bronze weapons can give me the muscle to push him off the city.
The problem though is that it takes many turns to get and prepare. By that time he will have archers, making it rather costly to do. Secondly i voiced my concern of this and will quite likely get a large garrison up or even attack! He does have apprenticeship and currently have stronger warriors then i do.

The other option is culture. I consider getting Carnival next to hire an entertainer. Extra culture will get me the rest of the flood plains and eventually recieve another Great Bard. Which i will either settle down as a specialist or to culture bomb the area.

So do i take the large hammer or the shiny hammer?

[Mr. Yellow]

This was quite an eventfull blitz. I've establised contact with WK and Mardoc (Only Irgy remaining!), started working my first cottages, Hogwood continues to be a badass and i've started researching Cartography (almost ready for the next revolt to City States, Apprenticeship and Religion).

Border conflict with Nyktorion has grown cold (though he had a steady increase in power), though i've taken the rest of the river culturally.
At west i've begun establishing trade agreements with Thoth. How wise that is however, i dunno. Still i need an extensive road network and i'm currently getting more workers.

Expect bigger updates next time.

[icewolf34]

So from some other FFH PBEM games, I've noticed some players will be very focused on defending what is 'theirs' or in responding to perceived slights rather than on winning the immediate game.

Sciz FFH PBEMII is probably the canonical example of this, and some players in the Spulla game.

That's probably helpful in establishing credibility for future games, but might hurt chances in the current game. I guess I'm curious if the retaliation against Nyktorion would fall into that category, or if you're afraid that he'll turn spiteful, or anything like that. Or do you feel that culturebombing or invading is the most +EV move even just within the bonds of this game?

[Mr. Yellow]

I will be careful in not spending too many resources for a few tiles and it's generally the city itself that will focus it's resources on the dispute. I've decided to settle this through cultural means, as i've gained a headstart with the monument and currently have the rest of the river in my grasp (for now).

I am going to pursue this further with a specialist and later on another Great Bard. That should be enough to get a permanent hold on the river unless he decides to do the same.

This may not be optimal play though, as the Carnival is a rather bad building (20% culture, 1+ happy) and it might be better to get a market instead.

The benefit though, is that i will gain a bigger buffer zone and cultural defence for an incoming attack. Nyktorions power graph have been rising each turn now and it's possible he may decide to attack (one warrior from Trinity has been moved in range of Vallus, while another is in production).

Overall though, this isn't gonna hurt me much as the main producer (The Capital) is fully focused on empire development.

[Sciz]

So from some other FFH PBEM games, I've noticed some players will be very focused on defending what is 'theirs' or in responding to perceived slights rather than on winning the immediate game.

Sciz FFH PBEMII is probably the canonical example of this, and some players in the Spulla game.

That's probably helpful in establishing credibility for future games, but might hurt chances in the current game. I guess I'm curious if the retaliation against Nyktorion would fall into that category, or if you're afraid that he'll turn spiteful, or anything like that. Or do you feel that culturebombing or invading is the most +EV move even just within the bonds of this game?

You should probably write what PBEM game that's a spoiler for, otherwise there's no point of using the spoiler tag :P

though for what it's worth; (FFH2 PBEM2 SPOILER)

I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's about Ilios city sites I wasn't going to attack him out of spite, I was going to attack him because I had no good city spots after Ilios had taken the two best ones. And if it's about Mist I just didn't think it would be beneficial to me to give him lots of gold for nothing, and even though I would obviously be worse off getting attacked by Mist I didn't think he'd actually attack me, as it wouldn't benefit him much either.

Now I will shut up

[Mr. Yellow]

I'll update yesterdays blitz in small portions.

First of all, i discovered a new civilization!




Located far down south and seemingly isolated from the rest of the world.

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]Glad to finally meet someone in game! I gave up on my scouting after the 4th warrior got eaten without finding anything new; I'm about to restart. Not much to see my way - jungle and ocean and the less mighty than hoped for Lanun.

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

Interresting. I'm the first contact they recieve.

[COLOR="Cyan"]The shadow dictator and the people of the glorious Bannors sends their greetings to the people of the sea in these promising times.
Our envoys have travelled far, having crossed the dreaded desert and sneaked through goblin territory to reach your lands.
We hope this meeting can lead to fruitful possibilities between the Bannor and the Lanun.

Sadly though, we are too far away to really establish connections. But we would like to exchange information.
We can tell you that us and the Malakim are located to the northern coast and that there's a vast desert snaking through the continent.
Else we know that the Elohim and the elves are located further east. The Sheaim however, we have heard very little of.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]The information is greatly appreciated! We had found the sea of sands (the Mirror of Heaven is to your west, actually), but didn't expect it to be vast! No wonder the Malakim are thriving. Sadly, we haven't figured out how to launch a ship into this sea.

I really know very little of use, but I will be happy to cooperate with the Bannor people. If I were to send a workboat to meet you for purposes of enabling trade, would that be feasible in a reasonable time?.

About the only noteworthy thing is that some Fawns came visiting in the very early game, about the same time as someone jumped way ahead of me in GNP and the Malakim score started to increase, so I wouldn't be surprised if they've been exploring lairs and gotten some very good and bad results.

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

Think i'll sow a little discontent once he finds Thoth.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Well to be more precise, the Malakim are located straight north of you while i am a little more west. So you'll meet Thoth before you find me.

Gotta say though, all my contacts have struggled with the fauna so far (bears wandering around the desert no less). I myself are currently on my 4th scout.

If you meet the Malakim then keep in mind that they are sitting on 2 gold resources they have barely started mining. One popped from a barrow no less.
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]*cough* *cough* 2 golds, plus a lot of desert, plus the luck they've already had? I will definitely try to attain my trade with other civs instead, if at all possible!

I have both an eastern and a western coast, so my contacts would likely depend on which way I send the workboat.

- Mardoc[/COLOR]

Not much i've learned here, other than that Mardoc have had a hard time with the fauna.
Also, Mirror of Heaven to the west eh? Think i'll visit it next.

The next day though, i've realised i got the directions wrong!

[COLOR="Cyan"]Ugh! Sorry, got the directions wrong! I'm to the east of the Malakim and you are apparently located on the southwest corner of the world. Taking the west coast you'll eventually meet the Malakim and then me.
Sorry for the confusion.[/COLOR]

I consider getting Fishing next once i'm done with Cartography. Thinking of getting a work boat up to scout the western seas and find Mardocs cities. This will also let me work the tiles on the nearby lake and put me in range of Sailing to get whales (and eventually Trade), sometime later.

Anyway, Thoths and Mardocs only contact is me. Wonder how to exploit that.



To the east, the Monument is done and Meeklord will mine the nearby hill to get some decent production going. Nutters is put on the hill to serve as backup against an attack and to protect the worker from goblin assaults.



While Hogwood have been resting another bear approaches! I thought of getting him back, but that would be rather dishounorable to the reputation he has built. Then there's also XP to gain so i say, Come at me bro!



4th city founded. Sadly there's very little to do with it untill i get a border pop. So currently it's a money drain till i get some decent work on it. At least it provides more free unit upkeep. This will also set the stage for future trade with Thoth. Diplomacy coming next update.
A barbarian city showed up as well and holds the rest of the river. Would like to keep that territory neutral for now.

Small notes:
WK, 6 points.

[Mr. Yellow]

Unsuprisingly, the 2nd bear bit it as Hogwood continues to piss in face of nature. The fight though sadly, had to be censored as the brutishness of it were too damn bloody for the eyes of the general masses.


Hogwood is now up to 11 XP and down to 1.3 health. Gonna be quite a few turns to heal up.
And from here on now, he will be known as Hogwood the Bearslayer.

Anyway, with the 4th city down, Thoth wanted to start getting the infrastructure down for future trade.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Congrats on getting the marble site settled so quickly. 4 cities by turn 68 is fast work.

With trading becoming possible, now might be a good time to start thinking about resource trades/open borders.
I have a worker in the area who can build a road to the edge of your borders once he's finished his current work tasks.

Do you have any spare happy resources that you would be willing to trade? I can offer sheep and gold in the near term, and I'll eventually have access to a spare fish and wheat. I would be interested in trading the gold for another happy resource. I'm also looking to secure a supply of corn if you have a second source.

Thoth (Newly appointed Minster of Trade to the Malakim Emirates)
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Cyan"]I currently have multiple cottons and corn for trade (very lucky with that second gold though!), however i've yet to get an efficent road network up.
Also, i'll be getting Cartography in around 6-8 turns.

I've noticed the barbarian city below by the way. Any chance we can keep it neutral?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]The second gold was the result of a barrow pop.

I think we can keep the barb city neutral for the moment. It's value isn't all that high at the moment. Aside from the flood plains it claims two oases. Every other tile in its fat cross is desert. It can produce all of one hammer/turn. Not very valuable just yet.

Perhaps we can agree that neither of us will capture the city before turn 90? That gives us some time to evaluate alternative settling options before we decide who is to claim it.

I'd like to propose the following trades:

Gold for Cotton and Corn for Sheep (I can replace the sheep with wheat, but I'll have my spare sheep hooked up a lot sooner than the wheat).

Open Borders for trade purposes once you get Cartography is agreeable to me. I would like to put a "no units in each others territory" clause into the agreement.

Thoth (more later....the save just arrived.)

[/COLOR]

Trade oppurtunities with Thoth is nice and all, but he has only met me so far. Considering i might have more possible trade oppurtunities later on, i will try to barter my way into a better deal.
That barb city for example, is something i'd like to get my hands on soon.
For now i've agreed to keep it neutral till turn 90.

Also with Cartography and the fact that i've scouted his southern lands, I'm gonna take a shot at selling that info.



Not much happening in the east, although a goblin has popped out from the fort. Little danger for loosing anything, but i'm curious to what he will target.



Anyway, scout done at the capital and currently getting 2 more workers. Lots of land that needs to be improved badly.



Aaand mirror in sight at the southern front.

Small notes:
WK, 13 points.
Mardoc, 6 points.
Thoth, 6 points.

[Mr. Yellow]

Getting the rest out here.

Turn 70:
Very uneventfull turn. Nothing really happened.

Small notes:
WK, 12 points.
Irgy, 29 points.
Nyktorion, 11 points.



Turn 71:
I were getting closer to the southeast tower with the 2nd scout. Entering it this turn and i find....



WK!

[COLOR="Cyan"]Well, was expecting someone would grab that gold spot sooner or later.

Anyway, we the Bannors greets the keepers of the land and look forward to future diplomatic interractions.

For now, i will say that we are located to the northwest of your 3rd city. Across the cursed desert that have caused much misery for our people.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Greetings to the Bannor empire!

The Elohim are delighted to meet the Bannors. May the future hold promise for both our empires.

In addition to yourselves, we also know of the tree-hugging elves (which you already know of) and the Armageddon seeking Sheaim who lie to the SE of us. Do you happen to know anyone else?

Not much has happened so far to us aside from the usual expansion, barbs and stuff. What about you?

Regards,
Einion MonkKnight
Ancient leader of the Elohim[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Cyan"]Well, we've established contact with everyone except the Sheaim. The Malakin are located close to the west and the pirates are far faaaar southwest from here.

Our current issue has been valid land. As we are entrenched between the coast and the vast desert surrounding the center area. This has led to border dispute against the Malakim and currently, the elves.

We will also look for possible trading oppurtunites in the future.

Sir Yellow, Chief Advisor of the Bannor[/COLOR]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Seems you're quite popular if you're missing only one contact. I can give you specific directions to the Sheaim if your interesting in completing the set. I don't have a way to make contact with the Lanun and Malakim right now though, but thanks for the directions nonetheless.

Tough luck about the surrounding terrain. There's not much you can do about your starting terrain this early. Hope your border disputes end well for you.

I'm also interested in potential trading opportunities with the Bannor when we get there.

Einion MonkKnight[/COLOR]

For now i hope he doesn't stretch westward and grab the river south of me.



Vallus popped border this turn. Grabbing the rest of the river, giving me a headstart in the cultural struggle.
Nyktorions power graph however have been rising steadily and this has worried me for some turn. Decided to halt construction of the Carnival to get another warrior out.



Meanwhile the southern scout entered the mirror, giving me a good look of the land.

Look at all the land Mardoc is free to grab. Overall decent too. Have to convince Thoth to expand in that direction eventually.

Small notes:
WK, 6 points.
Irgy, 8 points.
Nyktorion, 27 points.
Mardoc, 17 points.


Turn 72:
Education is done and research set to Carthography.



Which means COTTAGES!

....and in the rush of getting the turn done i made a horrible decision as well, which i didn't realise until today.
See the west worker there? The tiles that will hold the 5th city contains no river, so i need to irrigate farms towards it to actually make it grow....and i've been cottaging the only tile capable of it for several turns.
It's not done yet, but i've just wasted several costly worker turns that should have been used correctly.
So next turn he will instead convert the nearby farm to a cottage. I don't need extra food in the city and i really need to get some cottages down for money (and eventually Demagogs).

Also, there's something odd here........hey where is that skeleton going?!



Down to the more vulnerable border city. Smart little bugger. The odds are still heavily in my favor, though there's an increased (although very small) chance the skeleton can get a lucky hit and destroy the town. Hopefully it won't happen.



Currently scouting the western coast and so far found an untouched goody hut (please please be a tech)!

Small notes:
Irgy, 6 points.
Mardoc, 13 points.

[Mr. Yellow]

Quick one picture update of the recent turn. Will come with more later, but for now. Have a look at this.



Thoth apparently just popped the Pyre (without telling me even ). A 9 strength Ogre is almost impossible to stop this early in the game. Thoth however do have the axe and a level 7 combat 5 promoted warrior, so he can possibly stop it.

The good news is that this can pretty likely destroy his eastern city and interrupt his gold production. The bad news? If that ogre decides to turn around and smash me i'm doomed. Doooooooomed!