Learning Capria FFH SG

[haphazard1]

I checked the relations on turn 65, and they're strange. Os-Gabella dislikes everyone, as usual, but Amelanchier likes Os-Gabella more than us (he's even pleased, when I asked, and annoyed with us). Os-Gabella also has sizable backlines to expand into, while Amelanchier will be quite cramped. Yeah, we're in pacifism while Os-Gabella is in Nationhood (Amelanchier's favourite civic), but everything else should go in our favour - we don't use death mana, we don't have cramped border.

Stupid noob questions incoming!

I wanted to ask how you view the various AIs. Which are short term threats, which medium term, which longer term? Which ones do you match up well against, and which are more difficult?

Ljosalfar seem like more of a longer-term threat, as their forested-tiles economy takes a while to really mature. (At least it is taking me quite a while in my game, but I am just a noob. ) Sheiam (not sure I spelled that correctly) have pyre zombies for a potentially much earlier threat, but I don't really understand how their gates mechanic works as far as long-term power. Illians can get the Priests of Winter for some nasty rush power, but I don't know how well the AI handles that compared to human players being able to both pull it off earlier and handle it better.

Amel-boy and Os-Gabella being right on your doorstep obviously makes them more of a concern than if they were 25+ tiles away. I guess in the very early game everyone has pretty much similar units and it is just production/numbers, along with tactical skill which should favor the human player significantly. Elven forest movement may give them an edge -- I certainly found it helpful in my game for destroying the Amurites who started right next to me.

[Brian Shanahan]

Stupid noob questions incoming!

I wanted to ask how you view the various AIs. Which are short term threats, which medium term, which longer term? Which ones do you match up well against, and which are more difficult?

Short term:
Os and Amelancheir.
Both of those have their relative strengths early. Os with the PZs (even the AI can do mucho damage with them), and Amel with his extra hard archers and whatshisface (the hero). The elves are more of a "hard to dislodge" threat early on and even late their power is more defensive in nature, so I'd be more worried from a Sheaim attack.

Medium:
would be Jonas, with the warrens he can pull a real nasty axe army out his rear end (though the AI doesn't really know how to work that) and if he delays on the World Spell (Call of the Horde) a bit he could get some inferno priests (though I'm not sure with Tholal's mod). He's always pretty dangerous though.

Medium and long:
If it goes right Auric is an all game threat. He's got a number of advantages early, mid and late. But and this is big, he can get really caught out with a bad cap and end up building the PoWs or Bone Palace at 2hpt there before expanding (like what we think he is doing now).

For the rest of the AIs we'll have to wait, but I'm most worried about Os at the moment, she's got a strong axe unit and lots of land, she could really hurt us if we're not careful.

Ljosalfar seem like more of a longer-term threat, as their forested-tiles economy takes a while to really mature. (At least it is taking me quite a while in my game, but I am just a noob. ) Sheiam (not sure I spelled that correctly) have pyre zombies for a potentially much earlier threat, but I don't really understand how their gates mechanic works as far as long-term power. Illians can get the Priests of Winter for some nasty rush power, but I don't know how well the AI handles that compared to human players being able to both pull it off earlier and handle it better.

The Ljos don't get much of a bonus on the attack. They can be hell to disloge later on, but they're the kind of civ that if ye're both far away you can ignore for a lot of the game. In the hands of the player you can work with this, but the AI will just usually sit there and moan.

As regards the PoW, not usually that well. I'm more worried by him summoning Mokkha (I hope that's not what he's doing) and the frostlings, they can really play havoc with you (without being strong enough to take cities &c. they still can pillage the hell out of you).

Amel-boy and Os-Gabella being right on your doorstep obviously makes them more of a concern than if they were 25+ tiles away. I guess in the very early game everyone has pretty much similar units and it is just production/numbers, along with tactical skill which should favor the human player significantly. Elven forest movement may give them an edge -- I certainly found it helpful in my game for destroying the Amurites who started right next to me.

Even early on I'd usually be more worried by Os 25 tiles away than any of the Ljos close up. I usually think of the elves as "early target" in this situation (well I do that with nearly everyone), but Os can get out the PZs quite fast and you don't really want to attack nor defend against them so Os up close is dicey IMO.

[kjn]

Not stupid! Only stupid about asking questions is thinking they are stupid!

Well, I can't say I have a very good feel of the various AI personalities (I think I'm reasonably strong in micro and early development; less strong in strategic direction, aggressiveness, or knowing the various AIs well); Brian probably knows better there.

Amelanchier is probably the Ljos leader that is hardest to deal with in this situation. Excellent mobility on offense (there is a reason our road network is so sparse) and tough on defense. I imagine him to offend easily and hard to befriend. Maybe not as bad as Tokugawa, but in that direction. But he has no economic traits, so I guess he will fall back despite his excellent capital for early economy. The Ljos also lacks easy collateral, which makes it easier for the Bannor, who is all about quantity.

Ie, I don't see the Ljosalfar as a long-term threat to us, based on the map. They are slow to develop, and thus have trouble handling a cramped start (or they might have lots of land to their east, but I doubt it).

Os-Gabella doesn't like anyone, so at least you know where you have her. She also has lots and lots and lots of land to expand into, Pyre Zombies are slow but strong, and you have to exercise great care when engaging them due to their innate collateral (you don't want to go SoD vs SoD against PZs). Their spellcasters will be excellent.

Both from a roleplaying perspective and a long-term perspective I think Os-Gabella is the larger threat. The great threat of Amelanchier is if he allies with Os-Gabella against us.

Auric is hardly a direct threat to us. There is almost no economic potential in his start, and Philosophy is a long way away. We probably need to scout regularly (using the ancient tower) and check if the Priests are there, however. But they're slow, and can be countered by numbers. The greatest danger is Stasis and their various rituals, which is why I think the forces (workers, garrisons, and mobile reserves) supporting an expansion should come before the settlers.

The real big threat from Auric is if he manages to expand westwards before us, beating us to the fertile area of west of the mountain-pass.

[Brian Shanahan]

Save played. As regards the cities I pulled the micro plan except for one thing. After Torrolerial built the warrior I inserted a turn of Pagan Temple as it was one turn from growing. That put the workers and settler back one turn, but better to let it grow rather than holding it back by 2 food.

The scientist was hired in Torrolerial from turn 67 so 13 turns to go.

Edu came in on turn 79 and 3 cottages were started by Vallus. I also kept the EC in Vallus and Pagan Temple in Torrolerial in the queue just as they've hammers in.

Otherwise I'm not going to give a blow-by-blow account of the save but there were a few notable events:

Turn 66:
I was caught napping and a bear snuck up on our southern hill warriors. They won, and I promoted the winner to Guerilla. Later on another bear beat a Ljos scout (with none of ours in range) and promoted twice, I pulled them back into borders that time (C2 bear will eat Guerr warrior).

Turn 67:
[STRIKE]OO[/STRIKE]Kilimorph prophet event happens but we don't have the mojo for him. In EitB we'd have gotten money but not here.

Turn 73:
Gilden is built in a not so distant galaxy.

Edit: Note also I started moving my scout out with a warrior escort, I want to see more land if I have scouts.

Turn 76:
A tale is being told of a large axeman born in the far west. His axe is rumoured to have strange powers and he is no slouch himself. Unfortunately his name is not Druss.

Long story short looks like someone else is getting the axe boys.

Edit: No pic here, it didn't take

Turn 79 we get another event where my only choice is to pay 25 gold. There were three other choices.

Edit: The "visions of death" event, which has an OO/Evil theme

Sorry for the lack of pics getting the report up quickly, as my father wants the (dongle based) internet. They will arrive later.

The save.

Also remember I'm effectively out of pocket from now until next Wednesday. I'll be looking in and such but won't have time to play.

Ending Pics:

World is looking like:

A tale of two cities:

Torrolerial

Vallus

And I forgot the demographics and power screenshots. Sorry.

[kjn]

Can't check the save until tomorrow, but things seems under control.

You could've gotten both Torrolerial to 8 and the warrior in 2 turns if you had moved 2 citizens working hill forest to grassland forests (getting us to +5 food and +13 hammers into the warrior). But I could've been clearer about things in the spreadsheet.

I like to build cottages in bursts, ie two or even four (if I can afford it) workers teaming up to build a cottage quickly on a tile. You won't get the cottages finished faster, and have to take greater care to not waste worker turns, but you'll work the cottages sooner.

Ie, three workers building three adjacent cottages:

T0-3:
Cottage 4 (1 worker)
Cottage 4 (1 worker)
Cottage 4 (1 worker)

vs

T0:
Cottage 1 (3 workers)
idle
idle

T1:
Cottage finished (1 worker)
Cottage 2 (2 workers)
idle

T2:
Cottage finished
Cottage finished (1 worker move and cottage)
Cottage 3 (1 worker move and cottage)

T3:
Cottage finished
Cottage finished
Cottage finished (2 workers move and cottage)

Hope that makes sense.

Which tech did you pick up? Crafting?

[kjn]

Oh, good idea to leave paused builds in the queue!

[Brian Shanahan]

Can't check the save until tomorrow, but things seems under control.

You could've gotten both Torrolerial to 8 and the warrior in 2 turns if you had moved 2 citizens working hill forest to grassland forests (getting us to +5 food and +13 hammers into the warrior). But I could've been clearer about things in the spreadsheet.

I like to build cottages in bursts, ie two or even four (if I can afford it) workers teaming up to build a cottage quickly on a tile. You won't get the cottages finished faster, and have to take greater care to not waste worker turns, but you'll work the cottages sooner.

Ie, three workers building three adjacent cottages:

T0-3:
Cottage 4 (1 worker)
Cottage 4 (1 worker)
Cottage 4 (1 worker)

vs

T0:
Cottage 1 (3 workers)
idle
idle

T1:
Cottage finished (1 worker)
Cottage 2 (2 workers)
idle

T2:
Cottage finished
Cottage finished (1 worker move and cottage)
Cottage 3 (1 worker move and cottage)

T3:
Cottage finished
Cottage finished
Cottage finished (2 workers move and cottage)

Hope that makes sense.

Which tech did you pick up? Crafting?

Yeah I usually team up workers too for things like that but was so busy about checking the micro I didn't think.

And yeah I picked Crafting. We kind of need mining 20 turns ago, and well there's nothing invested, as I ended at the end of 79 rather than rolling over, so it can be a simple placeholder tech.

Pics will be edited into the report in a minute

[kjn]

With Os-Gabella expanding south and Amelanchier building Silveric, I'm pretty confident we can get Cyan. Excellent work getting visibility on Grottiburg!

[haphazard1]

How dangerous is Silveric to you? Does Amelanchier get the same Dextrous trait that Theesa (or whatever her name is) gets?

[Brian Shanahan]

How dangerous is Silveric to you? Does Amelanchier get the same Dextrous trait that Theesa (or whatever her name is) gets?

Dextrous is a civilisation trait of the Ljos, just as Sinister is one of the Svarts or Sprawling for Kuriotates.

As regards Gilden, he's an archery unit, and he gets the same defensive boni as normal archery units. I'm also guessing he gets the same AI coding as other archery units, i.e. defend city, so the AI are very reluctant to use him offensively. He'll be a problem if we attack, but unlike a human controlled Gilden he's not a factor.