[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[ljubljana]

Turn 172 - Phoenicia

Policy swap...



I tossed most of my fleet at Russia's frigates, and managed to get...



...3 promoted frigate fleet kills, including one nice double-promoted one. Then I retreated two frigate fleets into Abjad/Abugida, and a third towards Hieratic, setting up a caravel screen to protect it (hopefully) in case Mitla falls this turn AND williams still has melee ships in range. It might still die, but it was the best I could do, and at least Abu will probably live longer if he devotes all his frigate attacks this turn towards going for this ship. The rest of my newly-produced caravels this turn wandered off towards Australia where they have at least some chance of doing some good.

I also hit the GA threshold with my frigate kills this turn, which is pretty good since it's not at all clear that I will in fact get any more ship kills in the next 10 turns...

Upgraded two ironclads deep in the backlines at Linear B. Will merge them next turn, unsure if the resulting fleet will try to garrison in a city or head towards Australia. I also started all my cities on pike/shot and crossbows in anticipation of the coming storm, ofc.



Australia is nowhere in sight even after scouting. I suppose the play from here is to go capture or burn down The Marshall Mathers LP, assuming he does not try to defend it? I will then likely teleport the GA back over to this theater, since it will hardly do us any more good vs. Russia...

[Woden]

I think any ships you have on the west side of our main island should probably stick around and we can regroup. Merge caravels into fleets, hold them back until I can get some ships over there, and we can think about upgrading them when we get the gold.

The Marshall Mathers LP might be a good candidate for joining my empire because it has coal.

I have 4 forest chops set up on my turn. One ironclad will finish for sure and the other 3 might need a few turns to complete. I think I also need to buy a builder next turn at The Right To Know so I can chop out more ships before I focus on buying berserkers. Lots of good chops at The Right to Know. If I get another builder at Official Visit, I can probably chop out 6-8 ironclads from former English lands over the next 5 turns. Add those to what I can get at my core cities and I should have a nice 2nd fleet sailing to stop Russia from out sailing my other fleet.

[ljubljana]

Okay, I can do that too. I will hold my extra ships back and start to merge them.

Agreed that MMLP should join you in that case. I will therefore probably just teleport the GA to Anoch Sun (next turn?) and sail him down while we attack the city.

Edit: I also redistributed all tiles at Abjad and Abugida to other cities outside of the first ring, which will at least limit the amount of free vision Russia will get and the number of hammer tiles they will take away from me. And Medieval Walls finished in both cities this turn, with a chop in Abugida (denying that to Russia as well). Although, actually, in retrospect I think the tile redistribution was the wrong move - Russia can't pillage tiles that are already in their territory. I will probably give a few of them back to the cities next turn, if either remains untaken.

Could I also have a little more niter next turn? I have a quad in Cunieform that I may as well upgrade....that's hardly as impactful as a LoB frigate fleet, but I'll take what I can get at this point.

[Woden]

Turn 171-Vikings cont.
A few comments and planning from the last turn. Start off with what kind of match up I have against Russia...
   

105 versus 87 on a slightly injured caravel fleet. It did have only a 2 supporting ships (+4 flanking) but it is still pretty good. The difficult part here will being able to hit his ships. He definitely has the movement advantage and his best play will be to stay away from my reach but if he stops to take cities and it takes him a few turns, I should be able to get a few shots in. I think his most likely play on his turn will be to start hitting your northern ships and swing around the ones in front of (W)Odin, keeping his distance and me just out of reach. I think my counter should be to sail directly north and try to squeeze him in the bay of Abugida. He won't be able to sail between Abjad and Mitla because of ZOC, so if he wants to escape, he will have to sail around Mitla. I won't be able to close the gap so he can't sail around Mitla but I might be able to use the straight between the 2 cities to cut the distance down.  

Now for a little planning...
   

He is my core. I have forests ready to chop at Loki and Freyr next turn and a couple more over at former England. I will then buy the spice tile at Loki and chop out another ironclad in 2 turns. The 1st one at Loki will finish next turn. The one at Freyr will probably need another turn. (W)Odin will also start ironclads next turn, since the +5 IZ will finish (also giving me the last era point for a Golden Age). The trader I had going to Russia, I moved to Frigg and it is going to go to my capital for a +5 production trade route. The one finishing at Balder next turn is also going to Frigg and I will send to one of your cities (do you prefer which one, you get 2 food/2 production?). Then, the one in production will also go to you (another preference?) That should help Frigg get the theater square and neighborhood complete by the time I need them. I move Victor to Frigg last turn and am considering moving him to Loki to give promotions to ironclads. The only downside would be the extra city attack if Russia pushes land units into my lands. Still need to think about it. 

Over at England...
   

For full disclosure, I took this SS today. The former English cities are very underdeveloped and I will need lots of builder labor to get them cranking out ironclads. I think I am going to slot the extra builder charges card next turn so I can maximize their value. It means I will need to drop either the +1 culture/+1 science for trade routes (+18c/s) or the campus doubling card (~+25s). Both are highly valuable but the chops at England are definitely worth it. Open Government has 2 jungle chops and a forest chop and a builder to get it done. Official Visit has 2 forest chops but the improvements will have to be removed and replaced. There is also one forest chop for next turn in the city south of Official Visit (don't know name off top of my head). The Right to Know is a big target for chopping. It currently has 2 jungles and a improved forest that can be chopped. It also has a stone, a jungle, and a forest that can be chopped once I can get the gold to buy the tiles. Next turn, if I can get 1 of the 2 culture/faith pillages I have lined up, I will buy a builder at The Right to Know and Official Visit. If I don't get either, I can still buy one builder, probably at Official Visit to start improving that city. An additional bonus for all these chops is that most are sitting on hills. The jungle chops will grow the cities and then they can work mines for more production. There are other areas around England/Japan that can be exploited but these 3 cities are the main ones. I should be able to get a good number of ships out over the next 5 or so turns out of these cities and we should have a good chance of stopping Russia.

Now if the game could pick up its pace, we could get this done. I think willaims482's hope is that we concede if he does enough damage but I don't think we do unless he pillages the hell out of my core, and maybe not even then if I can get the former English cities to a decent production.

[Woden]

Could I also have a little more niter next turn? I have a quad in Cunieform that I may as well upgrade....that's hardly as impactful as a LoB frigate fleet, but I'll take what I can get at this point.

I have a quad in production that will take some of my niter next turn but I will have 8 to send you. Will that be enough? After that, I am going to need my niter to start building frigates. 

The plan so far will be to get enough ironclad fleets out that I still am making 2 coal per turn. One will go towards a coal plant and the other I will need to accumulate so I have a bunch to upgrade battleships. Right now I have 15 coal per turn and I think 10 or 11 is going to maintenance. I will get 3 more in a few turns, once the coal is mined at that Japanese city in the north. If we take TMMLP off of Australia, that is another 3 and if I can get some pasture/quarry pillages, I could get a settler out for the last coal on the English/Japanese island. All this means is that I should be able to maintain another 11 ironclad fleets and still be accumulating coal. 

I think I have about 7 turns until the coal plant is finished and we know where Refining is located. Then, I will need to switch from ironclads to frigates. Once Civil Engineering is finished, I will have 2 promotions for Magnus to get Black Markets and it will only take 3 niter to build frigates at Thor. Hopefully, I can get a bunch of frigates out quickly.

[ljubljana]

8 niter is plenty, yeah - after that, I can start sending some back to you, as well as my gold to save for battleships. Sorry I don't have time for a fuller response right now but I like and am on board w your development plan as well.

edit: thrawn now has 3 consecutive posts in the lurker thread, starting on my last turn and ending 9 hours ago after we pointedly declined to concede. That's never a good sign

[Woden]

Turn 172-Vikings-start
Open the save to some bad news, Russia took Milta!...
   

And upgraded a bunch of Cossacks. Also pillaged a few of my trade routes. Also, he left a weird blockade for me down by (W)Odin. Why would you leave the gap there. I guess it could be for ZOC but all I have to do is kill the ironclad in range of my city and encampment and it will open up attacking all those ships. Is this a trap or a misstep?

[ljubljana]

I actually see a lot of good news here! There was no way to prevent Mitla from going down, it was way too exposed to attack and didn't have the production for walls. But he didn't get in any damage against Abugida and Abjad, and now their defenses will improve. My frigate fleet in the north will survive and make it to Hieratic also, and he chose to give me free shots against his ships at Abjad/Abugida by going for the harbors early.

Plus there is that weird hole in his blockade...I don't think it can really be a trap, as you should have a good defensive position between those islands, and it's not like he couldn't have attacked your clads at any point in the last few turns. I'd say go for it, killing that frigate fleet would be awesome.

edit: Unless his plan is to not attack my cities yet and just pillage with cossacks while killing your fleet. But he is too fast for you to escape if that is what he wants, and this seems like a good place to make a stand if so, since you should be able to cut off a surround with some ironclads NE of the island as well.

edit2: One piece of bad news is that he is trying to trap my GA so it can't teleport over to marco. Oops, I failed to anticipate that move...

edit3: Speaking of TRs, you asked earlier if I had a preferred destination in my empire. Probably Linear A is the right answer for now, as it has Reyna established for +3 gold to me per foreign TR.

edit4: How did he kill Mitla without destroying the walls...?

[Woden]

edit4: How did he kill Mitla without destroying the walls...?

Urban Defenses. He will get the wall health difference from what you had, so if you had ancient walls, he will have 300 HP walls.

[ljubljana]

Ok, makes sense, that's fine for us then. It's not like we even care about retaking this city really, it had all of 6 hammers/turn when it was taken .