2
pindicator
Hey Gaz
3
pindicator
So listen, I have a bone to pick about the kind of flea and tick medicine you guys use. Neonicotinoids are killing off our pollinators. How's a village supposed to grow our crops in peace if you guys keep using insect repellent that kills off the bugs that help our crops reproduce?
4
pindicator
Just messing with you
Would like to get your thoughts though. Hopefully you have enough time today after you are done moving. And I think like while Lewwyn could very well be scum there's lots of possibilities after that
5
Gazglum
Pindicator! Hero of the Zulu Wars. Welcome to my humble abode. Or am I in yours? I presume you selected me for the quality of my conversation, and I will do my best not to disappoint.
I am always happy to share my thoughts, which right now are that, as I said, there are not 3 killers working for the Forces of Good. If nothing else, you have to wonder if we're still the Forces of Good with that amount of murderers in our ranks. After the Bad Vigilante, whichever he may be, I suspect Jowy, then maybe Jkaen.
I'm still moving this morning, but I'll be able to contribute properly this afternoon (5 hours or so). What time zone are you in? I know that you seem to be around for most of my day usually.
6
pindicator
Technically we're in your body. So I will be on my best behavior as your guest. Although I hear my standards on good behavior are quite low
I admit that I need to look over jkaen and jowy again. Jowy has just seemed so very cocky and sure of himself despite this being his first time... which is exactly how he reads in the forum posts. So I'm leaning village but I agree that he deserves more scrutiny. Jkaen is a puzzle - we're again at the weekend which is when he usually can't participate. But he didn't participate during the week either.
I also selected you because you seem to have been a little quieter than usual in the main thread. I suppose you've been trying to lay low for a certain role power? Well, that's natural. But I do miss the Gazglum posts that have really been helpful in past games. I'm hoping we're on trusting enough ground that we can try to figure some of this puzzlebox out. You certainly had no reservations about lynching novice, so that is a point in your favor.
I agree that 3 vigs seems unlikely. But they all seem limited in some way as well, so perhaps if they were all sufficiently weak?
I'm also curious why you think there are more ghouls. You seemed pretty sure of that in your last post and I don't want to make any bad assumptions if I'm thinking there aren't any
7
pindicator
Hey, I'm pacific time zone btw so I am going to bed. Hopefully we can talk more tomorrow? After that it's back to the work week and a lot tougher for me to communicate.
8
Gazglum
I'm sorry Pindicator, you're not having that much luck with partners right now are you? This weekend has been packed for me.
I started typing out why I thought more ghouls to you, but I don't want to just vanish from the thread so I just put it in there instead. I'll let you know some more of my thoughts tonight. ANd yeah, I'll be around tomorrow.
9
Gazglum, Reflective Host
I guess the lack of kills suggests no more ghouls actually, as its unlikely both a ghoul and a wolf were blocked. But yesterday I was working off the theory that ghouls didn't kill at all, as I said in the thread. Since they apparently could, yeah, I guess they're probably gone.
10
pindicator
Ended up staying up too late to watch a movie. I bet I'll regret that in the morning.
I think 2 scum parties does change the dynamic of what to look for - scum can appear to be hunting for the other party and appear village-like. But if we are down to one scum group and the ghouls are eliminated then that would deprive them of that advantage for the remaining time. Still, we found novice by him not trying to hunt (at least that was what gave it away to me).
Well, I was going to ask if you felt comfortable sharing anything power related with me, and profess my pushing the novice case as proof of my good intent. But now I see I've gone and poked a hole in that line of thinking. Still, if there is anything you feel you can trust me with, I think it would benefit us both. And if you have any questions of me, feel free to ask them.
11
Gazglum, Paranoid Host
Ok, Pindi, lets not beat around the bush. While there is nobody I would rather have in my brain, your presence here is not an entirely welcome sign. We all know what happened to your last partner in chat. And it’s pretty obvious that you being here means that you suspect me, at least a little. SO this is partly some kind of test to see if the Glum comes up Scum.
First off, I have certainly been a bit quieter than usual, and a lot of that is related to real life moving house stuff that is taking my attention. I said that I would be moving in the sign up thread.
It doesn’t mean I haven’t been having my own thoughts though, and until yesterday I would have been very happy to share them all with you. I had pegged as very towny. But I also had Brick pegged as town from his posts yesterday. So I was very happy voting Novice instead, who seemed pretty scummy in his posting compared to Brick.
But after I went to bed then, Uber revealed his own vig abilities, and now I’m much more torn on Brick. I really dislike this claim of 3 vigilantes, however watered down they are. Up until Uber’s reveal, I would have said that he felt scummiest for sure of the three, but now I feel like he can’t be. 3 vigilantes is going to seem deeply suspicious to everyone, so why would you be the one to invent the third one? And it has so much detail. And it feels more balanced than Brick’s claim.
SO yeah, now I think that one of Lewwyn or Brick is probably scum, with UBer only an outside chance. And if Brick IS scum, then I’m a bit more cautious of you. I think it’s clear that you and Brick are not ghouls from the way you hammered Novice. But if Brick is a wolf, then you are suddenly in a potentially worse light. I can imagine Brick making up the post restriction AFTER talking to you in the quicktopic, and realising you had the 1v1 chat ability. Thus the concept of him inventing a post-restriction, which you could ‘helpfully’ circumvent with your own ability and everyone is very helpful and pro-town.
To be clear, I don’t think you’ve acted very scummy, although Slowcheetah’s case against you Day 1 holds a bit more water for me now that he is confirmed town. I do think overall you’re probably town. But its not a sure thing for me anymore either, at least until we know more about Brick’s alignment.
I’m also a little suspicious because, of the players left, Jkaen and me are the only ones who haven’t claimed anything. So the wolves would be trying to find more information about our roles to finish their own puzzle. And lo, you come a-knocking!
The point of this ramble is why I might still be a little reticent with you for now. But I’m also happy to keep this conversation going and secret for now.
12
Gazglum
Ah, you're still here! Ok, I do have a question, hold on.
13
Gazglum, Paranoid Host
Ok, I feel like you agree with me that the vigilantes are suspicious. But I don't get why you suddenly picked Lewwyn as a lynch target at deadline. It did feel a bit like you were trying to work that towny-cred into an Ichabod-style deadline sheepfuck.
You said, 'if there's two scum teams Lewwyn looks bad', but hadn't you already assumed there were? Why did you bring that up then at the deadline as a reason to vote him then?
You've also been pushing mattimeo a lot to tell you more info...hmmmz.
14
Gazglum
If you're still on, let me know how you were playing the end of Day 3. After (my) dinner I can give you a full brain dump of my thoughts Days 1-3, if that will help make sense of my play, then maybe we can get a better partnership working tomorrow.
15
pindicator
Very well, no more beating around the bush. I'm sure as you suspect, I targeted novice for similar reason for targeting you today: two players whose thoughts I usually respect and can rely on in these games, and yet more silent than I recall. Now, Novice had the additional disadvantage in that we had once in a previous game shared a quick topic and he had duped me quite well. My take off him was much the same as that game: not contributing and letting me drive the conversation, and just going along with whatever direction I wanted to go so long as it didn't harm him.
Now you are not novice and you certainly act in your own ways and mannerisms. But I have seen some things that remind me of a Gazglum that had something to hide in a previous game, and I am not encouraged by those signs. So I felt the best use of my power was to try to flesh them out a bit.
As for Brick, I trust him. Perhaps too much. He definitely is not a ghoul; he knew of my suspicion against novice when I disclosed it to him day 2. He does not know I chose to speak with you, although he has already asked, and I may need to reveal it before the day is done. That doesn't mean we have to articulate what is being said. If someone asks the question it may look better if you volunteer that freely, but it's your choice as to how that gets revealed. But it will be revealed.
16
Gazglum
Sorry, I know it must be ridiculously late for you. Don't feel you have to keep writing if you're up, you can post when you wake up tomorrow and I'll get it in my morning.
Oh, and as an out-of-game aside: the Zulu campaign against Commodore has been one of the most epic things I've read here at Realms Beyond. You have my eternal admiration for it.
17
pindicator
Cross posting quite nicely here I see
18
Gazglum
I'm happy to say that you're chatting with me if you want. I can announce it in thread, if you have no complaints? But I'm not sure if it helps to say so until tomorrow at least, to keep people guessing a bit.
19
pindicator
Well, the Lewwyn case seemed rather straight forward to me. If there are two scum factions it seemed there would be two scum kills per night. And we had two kills the first night, and Lewwyn was caught at the scene. Somehow my brain didn't pick up on the text color difference between Serdoa's werewolf in the start and Azza's ghoul color, not until that third day. So perhaps Lewwyn was a wolf that was caught killing Azza and found a neat story to make him look good? It would fit with the 3-vigs-is-too-much theory and it would fit with the two scum parties theory. But it doesn't account for why there was only one night kill on the second night.
So I wanted to see if anybody would switch to Lewwyn. (And novice was honestly starting to cause my "what if" voice to pop up in my head. He is quite convincing when on the block, and I was dreading the deadline because I was sure that we were choosing between two villagers.) My thinking was that if we had a wolf novice then someone may be very eager to jump. But I'm not so intuitive as some when it comes to those last minute changes. And I definitely started to wonder if the fact that nobody wanted to change meant that Lewwyn was scum, but that's a bit self-fulfilling.
20
Gazglum
Ah, the El Presidente days...yes. Not my finest hour, really. And it may be true that I have a little to hide this time, but that doesn't make me of the lupine persuasion.
Let me ask you this - do you agree with Uber that the double voter is scum?
21
pindicator
Before I lose it in our posts, thank you for the Pitboss 8 compliment. That was been a very unique game, and a thrill to play. I was going to make a comment about the game, but odds are it will still be going when all these threads open up. Sadly.
22
Gazglum
Ok, well, that reasoning makes sense to me. I don't know how much to read into it though. Whether or not Lewwyn is scummy, I don't think anybody would have exposed themselves by switching at the last second, especially if it was someone who had already done that on the MJW wagon first time round.
23
pindicator
As for revealing, I just don't think it would be a good idea to drop it on people at the last minute. But we certainly can wait a little more.
I would agree that the double voter is likely scum. If they aren't then they need to explain themselves well when they reveal. A comment novice said yesterday in the quicktopic made me wonder if it was him: I asked him why he hadn't revealed yet in all his attempts to defend, and he said that revealing would just make it worse for him. That made me wonder if it was him and the vote on himself just an artistic send-off. That's probably a silly theory though.
24
pindicator
Oh wow, I see uberfish has attacked lewwyn over again. I need to think this over, I was about to say I agreed with one scum group and now I'm back to thinking there are two. Which means I probably should sleep on it.
If you want to reveal that we're chatting, go for it; I'll probably do so when I wake up and have moved about a bit, so 8 - 10 hours.
It's also uncharacteristically hot, so if I'm back online in 30 minutes it's because the heat is a little much for my temperate Oregon blood.
25
Gazglum
I had thought it was Novice too, and until the morning I had thought he had self voted as a smokescreen because he might still have another ghoul buddy out there.
But its not likely. And I can tell you that I am not the double voter. That leaves only Jkaen, as far as I can see. Unless Zak is a gossiper PLUS double voter, which I doubt. Everybody else has now claimed.
Thing is, I can see Jkaen splitting his vote Day 1 just because...he had no idea what was going on. And then after everybody said how scummy it was, it would be a reason for him not to admit to it. So I don't think its instant-lynchworthy. But I do think its worth pressuring him over. I think I'll vote him before bed.
26
Gazglum
Yeah, I got to go cook dinner anyway. Let's wrap this up for tonight.
27
Gazglum the Reflective
Actually, I have another question, rethinking the past few days.
If you believed Brick's post restriction, why did you move off him after Day 2? Wouldn't it have been better for the village for you to continue to serve as his interpreter?
28
Bedtime Glum
And Pindi, i understand if you want to keep mum on this, but does this chit-chat ability of yours have any other side effects?
29
pindicator
It does. But it is a necessity that we bring that topic to the main group
And because I have an additional power to just chatting with people makes me think that Zakalwe also has an additional power. I haven't decided if that makes him scum or not though; after all, I had a good reason to hide my power
30
pindicator
Can i just say this is the most awkward ability ever.
"Oh hey, i just happened to block you and i think you're a wolf. Um, so how bout this chat?"
So, yep
31
Gazglum, Persecuted Host
Yeeeah...
*Sips coffee...stares awkwardly into space, side by side with his accuser*
32
Gazglum, Persecuted Host
Is your ability a jailing one? Would it have protected me from a nightkill?
And don't worry about the awkwardness, I'm happy to keep chatting if you want. Whether you're a wolf, or I am, or we're both village, you're a cool guy.
So why did you move off Brick Day 2?
33
pindicator
Well, it's not like there are many other explanations. Guess i better reread to see if your targets check out with your (limited) posts
34
pindicator
Didn't seem like any point to stay on brick another day and i already wanted to go check out novice. I might meet up with him again, dunno. But there are so many mire awkward conversations to be had
I don't jail, only interrupt. Although i don't think anybody would want to night kill you with how you're seen in the main thread.
And yeah, we definitely need to chat, especially if you're really village
35
pindicator
Do you have anything elee to your ability?
36
Gazglum
Well, I thought Uberfish might have scanned me and lied about it when listing his targets, then he was was trying to knock out a threat (and a competitor seer!). Or I thought it was possible that the wolves were just hunting unclaimed power roles, which would fit the Rowain and Ichabod kills.
But if you didn't jail me it seems unlikely, I agree.
So I guess the onus is on me to come up with other explanations. I am still really sure that one of the vigilantes is a wolf, and it seemed likely after Uber's claim that today was going to largely about them. Depending on the number of scum left, and how they're planning their end game, this would have marked a good day not to kill. If people were going to be scum-hunting the 3 vigilantes, then it makes sense to keep that number at 3 to help the bad one hide among the other two.
Also, what if scum have abilities tied to high sanity (yes, yes, I know, I do too). It would be liekly, because self-balancing in that they would lose some of their power as they get closer to the win. So, again, its possible that they wanted to hold off a kill last night to give them one more use of another power before sanity dropped too low.
37
Gazglum
No, I have told you all.
38
pindicator
Well, uberfish seems the most likely scum of the 3 vigs to me. His whole ability is powering up and dropping the sanity level, and it seems most village abilities gets stronger or activate with lower sanity levels. Which makes sense: sanity drops as the village does worse or as the game moves on. So that's my best bet.
Silver lining is that you just cleared zak if you do flip town. And zak was on my scummy list.
39
pindicator
Also, if you are village, rowain is gonna have a field day in the lurker thread...
40
Gazglum
Why Rowain in particular?
I was definitely suspicious of Uber early on, but I had been swinging towards mistrusting Brick more since yesterday, because of the way Uber claimed a vigilante role after both Brick and Lewwyn, which seemed like a move that would only draw suspicion and attention. But I suppose if he was a wolf trying to kill off vigilantes he could have claimed his own role to make Brick provide more detail. Then, knowing that Brick couldn't shoot that night, it might have been a reason to hold off the sanity drop while he powered himself up again.
Or maybe he fake claimed a vigilante role on top of his (real) flavour role, which would work well as a scum threat detector, just to make Brick and Lewwyn seem dodgier.
Either way, I agree with what Zak said a while back, "I don't understand why the game would be designed around unlocking multiple vigilante shots in the end game, it would just lead to chaos."
If Brick and Uber are both town, then we have to believe that the town is suddenly going to get 3 vig shots in the last two days. And that we couldn't have got them until the final days. That would make it likely that the powers don't get used at all, or that the whole outcome of everybody's efforts will boil down to Uber and Brick's chance of picking the right target for their bullets.
41
Gazglum
Pindicator, did you tell Brick that your ability blocked the person you cast it on? And did you mention anything about other targets you were considering hitting after Novice?
42
pindicator
Rowain's always telling me how I mess it up for the village at the end. It's tongue-in-cheek... I think...
Did you catch uberfish's theory earlier today about a serial killer? That could fit. But the thing is I think it fits more for uberfish than brick.
As for Brick, I admit I could have a blind spot the size of delaware on him. I told him about intention to visit novice but nothing past that. And I did tell him that i blocked abilities towards the end of the day, but I did not tell him who I was going to visit past novice.
One thing I didn't like was him pouncing on novice early; I felt like that forced my hand on novice rather than letting me get a feel for him.
But I don't like uberfish. IT's just a gut feeling. He brings up the double vote more than anybody else, and yet it was on him day 1? It just looks suspicoius. And the fact that his ability lowers sanity to unlock additional kills. Well, it looks like from Brick's ability that lowering sanity tends to unlock additional town abilities, which makes sense: lower sanity means the village is losing and means that the game is moving towards the end. But why would an ability both help the village in lowering sanity and help the village in gaining another kill? Maybe he's just a pro village role?
43
pindicator
btw, i may just switch back for you. I'm having a bad day, and that means I start second guessing myself like mad. And I know when I second guess myself in this game I usually get it wrong. So odds are I'm going to be wracked with guilt at the end of the day and say "No, look at empirically; if you don't lynch gazglum then you're just rolling the dice" and I'll probably lynch you.
/bad day
44
Gazglum
Well thanks for letting me know at least. You are a gentleman spirit.
I agree that the problem is that there is no obvious other scumbo, I will do what I can to find one!
I think I'd missed Uberfish talking serial killer, I'll have to recheck. But, I mean ,really? He thinks there are scum, possibly multi-scum AND a serial killer, and nobody killed last night? Also I raised Uber self-voting himself before, and got shot down, but I do think its not implausible. But it's not proof either.
I guess the fact that there was only one kill Day 3 when you were on Novice could mean that anybody on the scum team could have taken a guess that you were a blocker. But that would be quite a gamble, so I find it hard to shake suspicion of you or Brick if that was the game.
Sorry about the bad day, but Lewwyn's good day at least balances things out for Realms Beyond as a whole.
45
Gazglum
I'm still trying to make sense of it, but now I have to go to an event for the next few hours. If you have any more questions for me and are up, let me know now and I can answer them when I get back online again tonight.
46
Gazglum
I have to go to bed Pindicator. I don't think Jkaen is worth voting today, and I understand if you swing back to me. Good luck on your further travels, you strange disembodied little man.
So from 15 hours left in Day 5 until about 8 hours left in Day 6 I'll be unable to get online at all. I should be able to get votes in both days but won't be around during the in between night period.
