The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[Fintourist]

Thanks for the analysis. It's true that we did not get too much new information, but at least WPC maps will be useful when we consume them after the Germans...

[kjn]

Our map deal with the Spanish was accepted!

The Spanish seems to have done a decent job exploring, we got visibility on no less than 5 Univers cities (and the land to their north), a huge corridor of land that's currently controlled by CivFr (though without city visibility), and some land to the south and southeast of the Spanish.

Here's the Spanish city of Nangoma.




The city (settled T118, ie 15t ago) has a plains cow, a wet wheat, an oasis, and a crab, so it has quite a nice set of resource tiles. However, neither the wheat and the crabs are improved, the city has only the oasis, two grass cottages, and the plains cow as current strong tiles.

Now, the city is quite new, and has only the monument for culture, so I can buy that the city haven't improved the wheat yet (though I wonder at the lack of road on the tile). However, the city has finished an ikhanda (30 adjusted hammers) since it finished the monument. Those hammers could have built a work boat instead, which could have improved the crabs, bringing a 4-0-2 tile to the city.

[kjn]

T133 C&D notes

Thanks to their new map data, I can give an exact tally of WPC's pop and land right now. They have 62 pop in 10 cities, and currently control circa 160 tiles. I have one mystery tech (classical, T131) for them, and some unassigned score (4) that is land.

The Spanish team grew two cities this turn - Ulundi and Ulmgungundlovu to size 8 - and have 38 total pop.

Apolyton gained 15 score and grew at least two cities (Edirne and Izmir). They didn't research any new techs this turn, unlike what I had expected.

The Germans grew Wismar, Wilhelmshaven, and Wesselburen. They also started a Golden Age with their Great Scientiest that was born T128 last turn. I don't think they have CoL for Caste System, so I'm not sure what they plan with their Golden Age.

CivFr grew 300k in pop, incuding growing their most recent city of Saumur to size 2. They have had two turns of large score increases in a row now (+18 on T132 and +25 this turn).

CivPlayers has researched Iron Working and Metal Casting. I think they got MC on T128, and IW either this turn or T132. They are confirmed via tile yields and builds - both Tlaxcala and Xochicalco have forges now.

CFC grew three cities: Mantra, Daivagati, and Bono. They have 99 total pop.

Univers has at least 101 pop right now (14%). City visibility didn't show or confirm any techs but Sailing.

Global power increased with 35000, ie a continued steady moderate increase. CFC has been overtaken by an unknown team in power, and also by Univers. Right now the Germans, CFC, and Univers, and the unknown team are very close to each other, at around 270. The leader actually lost a unit during the turn (rival best drop from 274k to 271k), probably a chariot or an archer.

Here is a raw dump of my list of city infrastructure:

CFC city list:

Indira: jewish, palace, granary, jewish temple, library, academy, forge, market,

Terasvin: jewish (holy), granary, jewish temple, pyramids

Mantra: monument, granary, library

Daivagiti: jewish, granary

Raj: jewish, granary

Lana: jewish, granary, jewish temple, library, courthouse

Lakshmi: jewish, granary, jewish temple, library, forge,

Astan: jewish, granary

Stupid city/Lokapara: jewish, granary, jewish monastery,

Abhi: jewish, granary, lighthouse, Moai,

Bono: hindu, granary

Hansa: granary, walls


CivPlayers city list:

Tlaxcala 4: buddhist, granary, monument, sacrificial altar, barracks, stable, buddhist temple, buddhist monastery, forge

Xochicalco 2: buddhist, granary, buddhist monastery, sacrifical altar, buddhist temple, forge

Texcoco: buddhist, granary, buddhist temple, buddhist monastery, sacrificial altar, barracks

Atzcapotzalco: buddhist, granary,

Tzintruntzen: buddhist, granary,


German city list:

Webringen: hindu, palace, terrace, barracks, library

Wismar 6: terrace, barracks, lighthouse, library

Worms 5: christianity, terrace, barracks, library

Wilhelmshaven: terrace, barracks

Wittenberge: terrace, barracks, library

Wien: terrace, barracks, lighthouse, library

Wasserburg 1: terrace

Wesselburen: terrace, lighthouse, library

Weil der Stadt: terrace

Warendorf: terrace,

Westheim: taoism, terrace,

Wanzleben: terrace, barracks,

Wolfratshausen: -


Spanish city list:

Ulundi 5: christian, palace, ikhanda, library, colosseum,

Umgungundlova: library, granary, monument, ikhanda, colosseum

Nobamba: monument, colosseum, library, ikhanda, granary

Bulawayo: monument, ikhanda, granary, colosseum, library, walls

Nongoma: monument, ikhanda,

KwaDukuza 3: monument, granary, ikhanda, library

Chinook: -



WPC city list:

WellPlacedCity: hindu, palace, totem pole, barracks, library

Hill to the Sky: hindu, granary, barracks, totem pole, library, colosseum,

Huron River: christian, totem pole, barracks,

North River: hindu, totem pole, barracks, library,

Great Plains: hindu, totem pole, library, barracks

Fields of Color: hindu, totem pole, granary

Southron Shores: totem pole

Erie: totem pole

Sunrise: jewish, totem pole, granary, barracks,

Arctica: totem pole, granary,


CivFr city list:

Saumur: granary,


Apolyton city list:

Apolyton: taoism, academy, hammam, market, library, courthouse, taoist monastery, taoist temple,

Aurora: taoism, palace, academy, hammam, barracks, library, market, taoist monastery, courthouse

Edirne (on iron): taoism, library, granary, courthouse, taoist monastery,

Izmir: -

Konya: Taoism, Granary, Courthouse,

Istanbul: Taoism, Granary, Courthouse, Taoist temple, Library, Hamman, taoist monastery,

Bursa: taoism, granary, library,

Port Boreas: taoism, courthouse, library, taoist monastery, granary, forge,


Univers city list:

Bibendum: hindu, granary, library, rathaus, hindu monastery

Yapamordum: granary, library, rathaus, lighthouse,

Laudanum: hindu, granary, library, rathaus, monument,

Valium: granary, library, monument, rathaus,

Filifurm: -

Petibonum: taoism, granary, rathaus, library,

Opossum: granary, monument, library, rathaus,

Aix-la-chapelle: -

[kjn]

Quickie T134 C&D notes:

CivFr researched Alphabet this turn, so our main rivals knows it now. The tech trading screen:

Apolyton researched Education.

CivFr researched Alphabet. They are up Music and Alphabet on us, and we are up Nationalism, Liberalism, Education, Philosophy, and Paper. I had missed them acquiring Currency and Monotheism.

CFC researched Iron Working, and must be jumping for joy over the placement of their iron.

Our demos are surprisingly competitive, despite having no less then three rivals in a golden age:

Note that we are now the #1 in geometric population too, despite our opponents having cities of sizes 17 and 15, and our largest one being size 13. F8 tells us why:

We simply have that much more pop than our rivals. I think our empire has close to 40% more pop than any other team.

[Ellimist]

Looks like we're still in a great position, despite missing Taj.

[T-hawk]

Not quite 40% more population. The math on the F8 screen would be (18.39% - 14%) / 14% = 31.3% more pop than "zioun".

Crop Yield is just about the same: (356-273)/273 = 30.4% more food than our closest rival.

We keep talking about the just-missed opportunities, but what about the one that we did get, the Hanging Gardens? We took the lead there and have never relinquished it.

[kjn]

Yeah, as for missed opportunities, lets break it down:

Hinduism: win
Hanging Gardens: win
Great Lighthouse: win
Liberalism: win
Starfall location: win
Brick by Brick location: win
Eastern Dealers barb city: win
Spice valley (The Covenant et c): win
Circumnavigation: Apolyton
Location south of BbB: CivPlayers
Oracle: CivPlayers (with much less ambitious target)
Mausoleum of Maussollos: CivFr (since we had no marble close by)
Great Library: CivFr
Music: CivFr
Pyramids: CFC (at our sufferance)
Taj Mahal: CFC

I count it to 16 different races (5 which concern cities) so far in the game, and we've won 8 of them. Of the settling races, we're at 4-1. With the tech and wonder races, we've won 4 and lost 7, and no-one else has won more than three.

[Azoth]

Not to mention Stonehenge.

[kjn]

Yeah, that was actually the first one I thought about when I saw T-Hawk's post, but forgot about it when it was time to reply. Stonehenge definitely helped fuel our expansion, both in getting our new cities started quickly, and in giving the opportunity for a quick prophet for the hindu shrine.

Another thing to consider is what CFC had to give up to get the Taj Mahal the way they did, with massed wealth builds for a quick Nationalism (our figures in parentheses):

Libraries: 4 (9)
Barracks: 0 (4)
Lighthouses: 1 (4)
Markets: 1 (2)
Heroic Epic: 0 (1)

Add to that that we have 18 cities to their 13, and we're ahead by quite a bit in our development. They have a small edge in forges, I think we will catch up to that very quickly.

[kjn]

Well, that's one whip frenzy! Apolyton whipped no less than 8 times, and for 19 pop.



That also gives me a very large set of data values for their whips, allowing me to find their exact start- and end values for pop:

Whip	Point diff
2	5
2	5
2	4
3	8
2	4
2	5
3	8
3	7

By looking up the helper table for score for pop values, I find that the sequence fits starting pop of 100, 93, 86, 79, and 58, and I guess also 72 and 65. Their known city sizes on T134 were 9, 11, 7, 6, 5, 6, 4, 5, and 2, for a total of 55 and 4 unknown city sizes (though one was founded T130 and likely was still size 1 last turn).

Putting in 72 pop at the start of this turn for Apolyton would fit well with them having 2 national wonders, or a national wonder and a bunch of land score. However, 65 pop is also possible, since Apolyton seems to be relatively slow in growing even their new cities. A lot will depend on which cities were whipped, of course. If their unknown cities were whipped then it would imply them being of somewhat larger size.