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The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

Definitely university whips from Apolyton. Their hammers are 207 (Apolyton), 288 (Aurora, capital), 227 (Port Boreas), 245 (Istanbul), 242 (Edirne), 230 (Bursa), and probably two whips in mystery cities. I guess they will push on hard for Oxford in Aurora.
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T135 notes from APTmod

CFC probably went for 100% gold last turn turn, and have circa 400g saved right now (they had 100g last turn). For comparison, we got 389g at max gold during our golden age, but that was with the help of shrine money and wealth builds in Focal Point and Brick by Brick.

I think they're going to push hard for forges during their golden age, which should allow them to catch up in their relatively stagnant infrastructure. They have also revolted to Caste System and Pacifism this turn, so they're probably planning to push out at least two GPs during their golden age as well, and maybe go for a doubled (or even tripled) one.

They are still in Bureaucracy, and settled their 14th city this turn, probably using their settling party next by our scouting chariot in their land.
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Estimating the German military

With war looming, it's time to assess the military might of the Germans. The APTmod graph tells us they currently (T135) has a power of circa 280k. As of last turn, T134, 35k of that comes from population. They have 21k from buildings (7 barracks), and I think they have 30k from tech. That leaves 194k from units.

[Image: ISDG-T135-german-wpc-power-chart.png]

Back when I last did a full track of the German military strength, I reached a combined military of 142k, so they've added circa 50k since then. Assuming a mix of axes, spears, and chariots with an average power of 5k, that implies they have circa 40-45 active units. I have seen no evidence of classical units (horse archers or catapults).

The real trouble for us will probably be their core of veteran units from their first war with WPC. The last good look we got at a good part of their army (T129, around Wilhelmshaven) the units there (7 axes, 2 spears, and 4 chariots) only had zero or one promotion each, and no promotions pending from what I could see. I have no notes on how they used their great general either.
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Apolyton on T135

After their university whip-fest earlier this turn, Apolyton is the new rival worst in population (we have perfect visibility on the Spanish cities, and they have more than the rival worst in population). This allows me to break down Apolyton's score and get the size of every Apolyton city.




They have 46 pop in their known cities, and their three unknown cities are size 3, 3, and 1, for 53 total pop (which fits with 72 starting pop per my earlier analysis). Together with known tech, known wonders, and a lower bound of known land that leaves 32 unknown score. I think they finished Moai statues T134 in one of their unknown cities (probably Ankara from T91, that likely built the Colossus as well), and that the rest of their score is made up of land. We have perfect tech visibility on them due to Alphabet.

One thing of note in the demos is that the rival worst shrank from 158000 to 150000 as the turn rolled, fitting reasonably with a whip of 19 pop. Thus I'm fairly sure that Apolyton is the rival worst in power right now.

Total: 150k
Population: 26k
Tech: 40k
Buildings: 23k (5 forges, 1 barracks, Moai statues)*
Units: 61k

* We have visibility on 4 forges and one barracks, and their Colossus statue must have a forge as well.

Ie, Apolyton has a huge amount of infrastructure, can run a higher slider than us, and soon with a much higher science multiplier than us (due to university whips and then a quick Oxford). However, they run a minimal military and have very little population. They are in no shape to start a war anytime soon.

City infrastructure list
Apolyton: taoism, academy, hammam, market, library, courthouse, taoist monastery, taoist temple, forge,

Aurora: taoism, palace, academy, hammam, barracks, library, market, taoist monastery, courthouse, forge

Edirne (on iron): taoism, library, granary, courthouse, taoist monastery,

Izmir: -

Konya: Taoism, Granary, Courthouse,

Istanbul: Taoism, Granary, Courthouse, Taoist temple, Library, Hamman, taoist monastery,

Bursa: taoism, granary, library, courthouse, forge

Port Boreas: taoism, courthouse, library, taoist monastery, granary, forge,

Samsun: taoism, lighthouse, granary,

Diyarbakir: hindu, granary,

One of their unknown cities have: forge, Colossus, and likely Moai
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kjn, once more many thanks for your great work.

Reading your report on Apolyton made me realize what paper thin military they have. That seems to be the case for several civs. How would it be to send once the NAP expires some 15 knights in their territory. They'd probably be able to capture half their cities... Of course that would change by the time the NAP expires but one never knows.

EDIT: One more thing: given how Apolyton will have a high modifier on beakers, it would be good if they don't get the GM from economics.

Kalin
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*pats own back*

[Image: ISDG-T136-apolyton-ankara.jpg]

That's Colossus, Moai, a lighthouse, a university, library, granary, courthouse, and a forge in a size 4 city (ie it grew on the interturn).
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Main things that have been worked out so far for T136:

The Spanish grew 3 cities and are up to 40 pop. I'm not sure how to explain their last 10 score this turn, because they're confirmed as the rival worst in land for a long time. Might be a classical tech and loss of some land score. I note down another tentative classical tech for now.

CivFr researched Paper. I think they grew 5 pop as the turn changed, but they whipped both at the end of the previous turn (2- and 1-whips), and at the start of this turn (3- and 2 1-whips).

Apolyton and CFC continue to stockpile gold, they both have 500+ gold saved right now.

Apolyton grew at least 7 pop after their whipfest last turn, and since the rival worst in power rose with 4000 I think I can confirm them as that.

CivPlayers built the Hagia Sophia in Tenochtitlan and grew three pop.
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T136 notes, continued

CFC grew 4 pop as the turn rolled, with no other score increases, and are now up to 105 after they settled the city of Delhi. After CivPlayers whipped away 8 pop earlier this turn, CFC are the new leader in pop. I currently has a too great surplus in score for them (7), probably due to the culture battles around their border city with us and with the Spanish.

CivPlayers grew to 111 pop, and then settled the city of Prague and whipped away 8 pop (1 4-whip and 2 2-whips), so they're now at 104 pop.

The known techs are unchanged. I think both CFC and Apolyton will turn on research this turn (CFC has already done so). CivFr has plenty of unknown score (36), where I think they have finished both the National and Heroic Epics. CivPlayers has even more (57), probably a mix of national wonders, techs, pop, and land.

The production numbers has been updated for all teams, and whips noted where known, but I haven't done any analysis.

I'm going to be away from Civ for a few days now (probably back Friday or Saturday). If someone could help with taking screenshots it'd be appreciated. If someone could sit down with the C&D spread sheet and break down the buildings tracking to be less cumbersome (eg by breaking out each team to its own sheet) I'd be very grateful. Right now that's an area that's very much out of date for most teams.
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Another thing, as a compare-and-contrast between Apolyton and CFC:

Apolyton's Malatya, founded T136:




Works an unimproved dry corn. The corn is improved by a single worker. No roads leading to the city either, and no workers visible to prepare roads or irrigation.

CFC's Delhi, founded T135:




The city had the pig improved the turn before the city was founded, and on its second turn it also has the iron improved and roaded by three workers. Add to this that the city already has a source of culture.
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Strange thing that I just noticed.

There is that barb city to the southeast of the Spanish that we can see the borders of. When looking at the close-in map view, it shows the standard black borders. When zooming out and selecting the cultural overlay, it suddenly has the same colour as the Spanish (ie Zulu yellow).

But Civstats shows no score increases for the Spanish within the turn lately, F4 shows no new cities for them, and neither does APTmod.

Anyone has any ideas what's up with this?
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