[PB60] Lazteuq and Civac

[civac2]

Now that the gold is mined, I wanted to start working it immediately, so I switched Chichen Itza from the copper to the gold. Delaying the warrior shouldn't matter for happiness since gold is connected.

After finishing the cow pasture I sent workers 1 and 3 to build that lakeside cottage 2N of Uxmal.
I'm planning to send one of them to start roading toward the southern city site next. The other will chop for Mayapan. I decided to chop both forests around Mayapan, so it can have a granary before growing to size 2. In my opinion 20h now is way better than 30h after Mathematics, and what better to chop than a granary?
To help Uxmal grow in 2t instead of 3, I was thinking of having it take the cow from Mayapan for 1 turn. Not sure if that's a good trade.

Agreed with chopping both forests into the Mayapan granary and building a road to the southern city with the third worker. Make sure Mayapan doesn't get too much food so that the granary is maximally effective on growth to 2. Depending on that, cows to Uxmal may be better anyway.

Civac, what do you think we should do with Chichen Itza next? I think we can grow Chichen all the way to 6 and then 2pop back down to the 4 good tiles. It can also slowbuild settlers or workers at size 4 pretty effectively I think. I feel whipping it below size4 doesn't make much sense because it has a gold mine and a copper mine to work. Thew capitol could take its deer back I guess.
We also need a workboat for Mayapan. Chichen Itza can do it, or Mayapan can do it after the Granary is chopped, but that's a bit slow.

Not entirely sure about Chichen Itza. My intuition would be to just whip a worker into a work boat for Mayapan immediatly. But maybe that's wrong. I will have look later today.

For the island city, I guess we'll want a worker to pasture the sheep. That can probably be one of the workers who are currently chopping at Mayapan. I think that island city should take the clams from Lakhama for a short time. We'll have a cottage or two for Lakhama to work if necessary.

I would use the worker who is roading near Mutal and replace him with the new worker from Chichen Itza. The workers near Mayapan go off and do other things once they are done chopping, of course. But for the island they are too late. Don't forget to load the warrior into the galley. I want it to scout the northwestern edge of the island for more sea food. The galley itself can scout the south eastern edge once it has delivered the settler.

[Lazteuq]

Played turns 63 and 64 and made some notes.
I think the southern site marked by an x is best. It gets instant seafood, access to an oasis tile, and is farther from Superdeath, making a safer border. It doesn't reach the deer for 10 turns, but that's OK.

I think I moved the galley in a optimal way so the warrior can go northwest next turn while unloading the settler as well. I feel like there are some unit loading/unloading micro tricks I may be forgetting though.
Why should we settle on the stone x instead of the plains to its south? Just for the extra hammers on the city tile? Settling 1 tile south gets crab in our borders immediately but delays the plainshill sheep, which I think is a good trade.

I'm planning to grow Chichen Itza to size 5, whip a worker, then overflow into a workboat. Mayapan can take the copper mine for a bit, which is actually nice because it helps make sure the granary is done in time.
Uxmal had more overflow than we were expecting, the work boat there is already at 26/30h. I switched to a 3t warrior for MP duty, since the city grows in 3 turns. Then a settler and finishing the workboat.

[civac2]

Situation looks good, the plans you outlined in your post all make sense and unit movements were on point. 

For the granary build in Mayapan to work out properly the city needs to take the copper on t65 already. Chichen Itza then has to work two lakes and the cow goes back to Uxmal. It's not optimal but works out better then the alternatives I think unless you have something better.

As for the island city, settling with the sea food in the first ring on the plains tile is absolutely a viable option which I missed due to   .  The stone plains hill plant is very useful too. Long term neither city is particularly strong. In such a case I usually sketch out which city gets a granary done faster as a shorthand for which city develops quicker. But I don't think it's a big deal. Either way should be fine. Do make sure you scout the south eastern edge of the island with the galley for more sea food though it's unlikely.

[Lazteuq]

Agreed, things are looking good: There IS a second seafood near the island, and another island out in the fog beyond!

Of course this means we shouldn't settle on the stone because it would block the plains forest city. As a sudden change of plans, I decided to settle the island plains forest first. It can take the capitol's cows until the sheep pasture is done, and then in 10 turns it will get access to 2 seafoods. The only big disadvantage I see is that it doesn't get stone in the borders. I'm fine with that, since we won't be farming pyramids failgold for a while anyways.

Also, as soon as the island city's borders expand, we'll be able to reach that more distant island across the 1 tile of ocean. That's probably a contested area with Amica, so settling it early will be helpful. 

I don't understand what you mean about Mayapan needing the copper mine t65. With 2 20h chops and 2 turns of working cows, it can work the copper on only t67, have the granary done t68, and grow on t69. Were you forgetting about the second forest chop? Or am I missing something?

I don't want to trigger superdeath, so I'm splitting the EPs between him and Mjmd, even though I don't care as much about getting Mjmd's graphs.

[Lazteuq]

Turn 66
Map

I was wrong about reaching that island: we don't need to wait! I guess I didn't realize boats can reach diagonally from coast to coast tiles. Since our galley doesn't need to do anything else immediately and the warrior won't be needed for MP duty for a while, I want to explore that island a little. I'm guessing Tarkeel put some nice luxury resources on the contested islands.

Also I was wrong about the stone: It's already in Lakhama's borders! I don't know what I was thinking. So after the sheep pasture is done, the worker can quarry the stone, or go back to the mainland and chop.

The new island city of Calakmul took the cow from the capitol, which took the deer from Chichen Itza. I like how much tile sharing we're able to do with these closely packed cities. It reminds me of my PB56 cities, except without all the crushing border pressure and panic whips.

No sign of aggression from SD. We should be able to settle that southern site in 4 turns with a Holkan defending, a work boat on the crabs, and a worker ready to start chopping a granary.

For the new settler coming out of the capitol, I think we should go straight north to the site with 2 fish. The city will be terrible for the first 10 turns, but then the double fish will be excellent, and having the second gold mine will make the city pay for itself easily. It's 10 turns of crap no matter when we found it, so I think now is a good time. We don't have the workers ready yet to support the farther west city(with the pigs). It has three plains forests which I'll be happy to chop.

Something I just realized: It's only turn 66 and we already have little reason to do any more scouting on the mainland because we know everyone's land is the same. I think that's a small disadvantage of maps like this.

Demos (after two 2-pop whips!)

[civac2]

The way you set it up the granary in Mayapan comes too late. (If it only takes the copper t67 it will still be too late.) It is not enough to have the granary finished. It needs to be filled. Each turn after the granary is built (but not on the turn it finishes) it will store the food surplus up to a maximum of half the food needed to grow. On turn 67 Mayapan is at 18/22 food. You work the copper and it is now at 19/22. The granary finishes turn 68 and Mayapan works the cow again. It grows on t69 with 4 (granary) + 1 overflow (food) in the box. So you gain only 4 food from the granary out of a maximum of 11.

I switched tiles around so that Mayapan takes the cottage this turn and Uxmal the cow. With Mayapan working the copper on t68 and then the cow on subsequent turns it will grow on t70 with 11 food in the box which is 2 better than setup you had. Uxmal will also be 2 food up.

Island city is fine. I would prefer the clam/dry wheat city over the double fish city even if you want to delay agriculture. It can work 3 flood plains cottages.

[Lazteuq]

OK, I understand now. I think RefSteel tried to explain that to me before but I didn't grok. I wish the city screen showed how full the granary is.

I'll go for the clam/wheat first, founded t70. Also Agriculture is cheap enough, now that we're about to have 2 cities that need it, I think it's worth the cost. I've sent two workers to the clam/wheat, and there are two workers roading south. I don't like wasting all these workerturns moving them from the core to the borders, but I don't know what else to do.
What if galleys were 3-movement within your borders? Then you would have an incentive to carry units on boats.

That more distant island is really disappointing: A single plains hill and the only resource is whale.

Superdeath has a warrior which could cause some trouble in the south. We may want a second holkan there soon.
GKC has archers. On a map with no barbs and relatively distant enemies, why would you tech archery unless you're going for horse archers?

[Tarkeel]

The only thing you need to remember, is don't let the granary finish the turn you grow. You're usually better off using avoid growth.

[civac2]

The only thing you need to remember, is don't let the granary finish the turn you grow. You're usually better off using avoid growth.

Um, no. This is not good enough. With Lazteuq's plan the granary would have beed done before growth. it still would have been wildly inefficient.

[civac2]

A second person researched Polytheism. We may be too late for Judaism. If so the path over Meditation -> Priesthood to Monarchy is faster. It would be a good idea to just save money until you can research Polytheism -> Monotheism at 100%. If noone get Judaism in time go for it. Otherwise, lets just get Monarchy on the cheapest path.