[Spoiler PB62] Vanrober in a new chapter learning from Miguelito

[vanrober]

I agree with all you said. I didnt want to bring PB56 decisions back, and i still think warpeace would have been a good option if you wanted to atack CAiro as i did to atack Ruff. 

But anyway, i really see your point and i see that its not a good way to win the game, and i would like that to be my path for the game. Settling on top of copper might be a bad option long term i guess, but we need to see where it is. I try to get 2 workers out and chop 1 forest to put the settler out on turn 31 with 3 warriors done before that. If we want to speed the settler more, we can do it right in lvl 2 and it should be doen turn 20sh, but at the cost of a lot of worker labour, also we could try to finish it a couple of turns before not finishing more than 1 warrior.

I still didnt sim much since i think knowing copper for second city is the key. The problem with the scout is that we do need to know where copper is, and we still need West and south to be scouted. So maybe bringing the first warrior to scout him? but if we do so then we might seem too agresive, maybe a second scout was better.

And in the worst case that we lose to a rush of mjmd its completely fine since these talks with you have already been worth for joining in this game.

[vanrober]

Turn 15

Copper revealed and we might have a problem, copper was in our BFC, so probably the rest of the players got it there too. There is other coper next to the gold, if that copper is suppossed to be Fableds, poor guy, iw ould try to settle close.

   

So after thinking some, i think that it would be a good plan to get the second city as we planed in the begining, with 2 workers it should be settled turn 31 probably,and we could use both workers to get the copper roaded in turn 35ish. I think that should be fine right? That spot is farthest to mjmd so i would say it should be fine that way. In the next turns ill keep moving the scout to see the rest of spots.

Ive done a quick dotmap that we could start thinking already.

   

And this is demos

   

[Miguelito]

Well luckily Mjmd doesn't need copper at the capital in prefer to wreck our game, so this doesn't change too much

We just don't know if t35 will be enough. Maybe yes, maybe it's too late, maybe t30 is, maybe t25
I have to say I like settling on the copper a lot more though, especially if the scout finds something useful yet. The copper is on a tundra hill, right? So the mine and road are extra slow in a critical moment, on top of having to clear the forest. And eventually it's a 0/5/0 tile, which is not really great. Settling on top shares the tundra FP so the city has food.

The other dots make me uncomfortable because we'd be settling all flatland border cities, but I don't see a good way around it yet either.
In an ideal world I would want to settle all the resource hills (marble, the 2 coppers, the gold, possibly the silver as well), but it would be very unwise diplomatically. Maybe we should just wait where Mjmd settles before we plan for the third city, anyways.

[vanrober]

Asumming you like the second spot, if we go with just 1 warrior and we start at 2 pop worker and then settler at 2 pop too, then we can settle turn 28 second city in that spot. Grabbing copper in 34. I think having 2 workers out is important, since if he is coming for us we could just focus on chopping out units eventhough they are warriors, like our production should be always better than his since he needs several turns to arrive and all that.

I think its good enough with 2 warriors, otherwise we could do settler instead of worker, we get developed faster the second city but with several cost. First losing TR several turns, and second not having the amount of improvements done. So i dont really like that option.

[vanrober]

okey, we crossed post again.

settling oon copper ofc is an option, we would still have the deer acces and the tundra floodplain, a bit more expensive in that spot, but nothing else, it would get the copper a bit sooner, like turn 30sh

[Miguelito]

ok I got a nit confused by your first post, but now I see

Yes I was going to argue along those lines - the on-top-of-copper city only needs 2 roads (wheat and E of copper), which a single worker should be able to handle, ideally before settling even.

I'm unsure whether to grow to size 3 and finish the second warrior, or gamble and build the settler at size 2 with just one warrior. If we were to grow to size 4 (that's 3 warriors right?), when could we whip the settler (single worker)?

[vanrober]

ok I got a nit confused by your first post, but now I see

Yes I was going to argue along those lines - the on-top-of-copper city only needs 2 roads (wheat and E of copper), which a single worker should be able to handle, ideally before settling even.

I'm unsure whether to grow to size 3 and finish the second warrior, or gamble and build the settler at size 2 with just one warrior. If we were to grow to size 4 (that's 3 warriors right?), when could we whip the settler (single worker)?

I can sim a bit this options.

1worker settler 2 pop will get the settler on turn 26, just 1 turn before than with 2 workers, i think its not really worth. Unless we dont want to road to the site, and instead choping a couple of forest

We would still ahve 1 turn done in a warrior since we are 1 turn to pop 2 and we need to build something, so in the worst case we can finish several warriors. Indeed with the overflow of making the second worker we can 1 turn a warrior, thats why we need another warrior to get to size 3. If we want size 4 we would still need more warriors. I think its too slow. But i can sim it if you want me to be sure

[Miguelito]

Also I think it's better to send the warrior scouting, with a tile distance to Mjmd's borders so it isn't seen as aggressive. The scout should probably fogbust the copper city area, so ideally we won't have to settle with a warrior covering (ok we probably have to anyways, because panthers?). Also mind the t26 border pop)

After wheel, hunting -> pottery?

[vanrober]

Also I think it's better to send the warrior scouting, with a tile distance to Mjmd's borders so it isn't seen as aggressive. The scout should probably fogbust the copper city area, so ideally we won't have to settle with a warrior covering (ok we probably have to anyways, because panthers?). Also mind the t26 border pop)

After wheel, hunting -> pottery?

I was thinking so yeah. Other option could be AH to get horses revealed?

[Miguelito]

I can sim a bit this options.

1worker settler 2 pop will get the settler on turn 26, just 1 turn before than with 2 workers, i think its not really worth. Unless we dont want to road to the site, and instead choping a couple of forest

We would still ahve 1 turn done in a warrior since we are 1 turn to pop 2 and we need to build something, so in the worst case we can finish several warriors. Indeed with the overflow of making the second worker we can 1 turn a warrior, thats why we need another warrior to get to size 3. If we want size 4 we would still need more warriors. I think its too slow. But i can sim it if you want me to be sure

possible crosspost again, see above.

I assume 2 workers has us chopping a lot? Which normally I would be wary of, but in this case, it might actually be good to get rid at least of the 2 forests bordering our cap so he can't park his skirmishers there.

With size 4 I would want to whip for 2pop, to make up for time lost. I like starting the whip counter early, because it's a regenerative resource. Of course it feels better to revolt while the settler moves, and I don't have a concrete idea on what is better here.