[SPOILER] Asoka of Aztec - Ioan(76)

[Ioan76]

Just one more remarks : I'm curious if Mackoti will won the professional-game with Kubilai/French civ too because ( as a post-game consideration, and not as an excuse for my mistake or for the rather risky approach which I had this game ! ) IMHO this combination was too strong/unbalanced.

To have cultural-expansion for free ( with corresponding city-defense bonus ) and simultaneously to have promoted axemans ( for free too ) as all-purpose units, both for defense and as an offensive threat - as usual in Early Age - on a map with clever-designated choke-points/passage ... is, arguably, just a too big advantage.
And after he grabbed a good chunk of land for development in this way it was supposed to fight against such a nice UU like Musketeers ??
Honestly I find this quite ridiculous ...

I'd say that my only chance was if I'd succeded in my initial attacks ( the one which are fought with 2-3 units ) - otherwise it was clearly that Nicolae's cities/position is not under serious threat until catapults are available ( and maybe HA too ). And how the hell was supposed to prioritize/research for faster than him these techs when I was forced to keep a good number of units as a defense/counter-strike task-force against a possible invasion with default-promoted units ( on a map almost without rivers => less gold from cottages ) ?

I'm curious to read in his thread after we will conclude this game which was Sareln development/expansion - because he managed to build 3-wonders in very short time which probably cost him on land-grabbing ...

Anyway - this is and was still an enjoyable game with a lot to learn. And the ideea with pre-set leader without any overlapping trait which are by game-admin was really cool - I'd join to another game like this anytime.
Just that Agg/Cre combo is better to be avoided for such a setup.

I'll finnish to play the current move, send the game to GingerEagle and I'll made the victory-proposal.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

That early spear was really scary, it basically told me you were investing a ton into aggression and that made me rush for copper. Settling that city first was a mistake, I didn't scout out my land enough and should have settled elsewhere first. 3 warriors has decent odds against a spear on flatland, and the axe definitely pushed the decision to attack.

I also thought Sareln's wonders were a mistake, but I had most of his land already gobbled up so there wasn't much he could do.

Lacrimiora was totally opportunistic, I knew you didn't have alot because I had vision of the road. I didn't go further because I didn't want to commit, I already had massive costs from my military (worse than yours, and while I had an early development trait from CRE I didn't have a long-term economic trait like ORG).

I never considered that you were trying to catch up with city spam. I was actually pretty worried about you, you had the best land in the long-term and a weak neighbour. That's what drove me to attack you: I had an easily defended front against Sareln and not so much against you. Therefore, I attacked you harder to collapse and neutralise some of those fronts so they would no longer be a threat.

[Ioan76]

3 warriors has decent odds against a spear on flatland{...}

Seems so - but this is a good lesson to learn : that warriors are not totally weak & usable just for MP units ...

Lacrimiora was totally opportunistic, I knew you didn't have alot because I had vision of the road.

Yeap - not defending it enough/not checking your power-graph was ( as I already acknowledge ) my biggest mistake in this game.

[Ioan76]

I never considered that you were trying to catch up with city spam.

I didn't spam cities in the begining of the game that's right - I estimated that this would be almost suicidal ( and what happened in Professional-game indicate that I was right ) - but after this I managed to settle/capture from barbarians a good number of cities ... at certain points you had only 1 or 2 ahead me which I'd say it's quite decent play from me.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Decided to retreat the "pressure-stack" from the forest near Nicolae's city - and I order to do so probably I'll lose a Horse Archer ( which pillaged access road in order to prevent a counter-strike from his defending forces ).
Machinery will be researched in 5 turns - let's hope that this will not prove too late ...

This was quite clever, if you waited several turns longer I would have attacked Aurita directly. I wish I'd kept a pair of workers in the area, that way I would have been able to attack your stack on flatland, exposing Aurita directly. As it was, I just shrugged and kept teching. In fact, the only reason I took peace was because I could no longer strike.

[mackoti]

Just one more remarks : I'm curious if Mackoti will won the professional-game with Kubilai/French civ too because ( as a post-game consideration, and not as an excuse for my mistake or for the rather risky approach which I had this game ! ) IMHO this combination was too strong/unbalanced.

To have cultural-expansion for free ( with corresponding city-defense bonus ) and simultaneously to have promoted axemans ( for free too ) as all-purpose units, both for defense and as an offensive threat - as usual in Early Age - on a map with clever-designated choke-points/passage ... is, arguably, just a too big advantage.
And after he grabbed a good chunk of land for development in this way it was supposed to fight against such a nice UU like Musketeers ??
Honestly I find this quite ridiculous ...

I'd say that my only chance was if I'd succeded in my initial attacks ( the one which are fought with 2-3 units ) - otherwise it was clearly that Nicolae's cities/position is not under serious threat until catapults are available ( and maybe HA too ). And how the hell was supposed to prioritize/research for faster than him these techs when I was forced to keep a good number of units as a defense/counter-strike task-force against a possible invasion with default-promoted units ( on a map almost without rivers => less gold from cottages ) ?

I'm curious to read in his thread after we will conclude this game which was Sareln development/expansion - because he managed to build 3-wonders in very short time which probably cost him on land-grabbing ...

Anyway - this is and was still an enjoyable game with a lot to learn. And the ideea with pre-set leader without any overlapping trait which are by game-admin was really cool - I'd join to another game like this anytime.
Just that Agg/Cre combo is better to be avoided for such a setup.

I'll finnish to play the current move, send the game to GingerEagle and I'll made the victory-proposal.
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This post realy made me luagh, and I will show why in my opinion and I think
until now i proved i now a litle bit about this game, Asoka's start and traits wher the strongest in the game:

1.I dint know how Ioan planted his capitol, but in the way Nakor did he had:
Deer, pig,horses cooper and i dont count the banana and wines.This is just way better that what i got, if i scale the from 1 to 10 and give this one 8 for example mine should be 4, why? If you go Bw in start there you have bronze if you go animal husbandry well you have horsies too.My bronze was 7 tiles away and i had to reseach fishing to have strong food, and with my starting tech i could't improve any of my food only a dry rice, which if i didn't setle one i wouldn't have the fish and i could carry on and on...

2.Second city for Asoka was no problem no need to try hard for cooper, or horses and you could very easily to overlap with capitol and start right away working an improved tile.

3.Happines , i had just gems in my starting area, when Asoka could get very easy : ivory, fur and gold .

4.With the amount of food on this map, you work just farms and cottages and of couse special tiles with Aztechs,yes I am talking about altar.
With a dedicated beline after getting basic techs, Iron working its not one Ioan,you can get there aroud 1000-800 BC.And at this point Asoka its clearly the strongest leader.Yes i am talking about spiritual you go 5 turns in caste and pop borders or go 5 turns organized religion anything you want.

Starting from turn 90 i payed more than 100 gold for civic upkeep make that
50 for Asoka and you have a picture what asoka can do.And i remmeber when i plante my 9 city that at size 4 was costing me 11 gold so with asoka and aztecks was just 2 pops for whiping a courthose and just 3 turns of unhapines..., man if this its not strong.

5.You dont have to be agresiv you just plant defensive at with masive boost production from begging just wait for oponent and later you go with more adavantaged weapons.

Mid game Spiritual its the stronger trait and organizat its very useful on this map with courthoses and lighoses.So many time i wanted to change for organizat religion to build oxford but the revolution penalty made me to keep teocracy for almost all the game.

In concluzion i will play from Asoka start pozition any time and I am sure that my development would be far stronger that with kubay kan wich doesnt have any skills for midle game and forward.

[Ioan76]

In concluzion i will play from Asoka start pozition any time and I am sure that my development would be far stronger that with {...}

In both games the player with Kubilai Khan won - and quite comfortable I'd say. I take this as a better argument then other analysis ... which BTW are sort of : "rush earlier or wait until Middle Age" ...

kubay kan wich doesnt have any skills for midle game and forward.

But this combo has the best synergy in begining of game ... which proved enough.

[mackoti]

What i like about civ its that you can plan for a very long time,and if you play enough you know the time of your leader.Well seing your start , it was natural to research animal husbadry you find horse if you feel in danger buil a chariot and sent towards enemiea, after that with your start you could have 3 cities , all working improved resources near 2000 bc.And you are already ahead, and you can grab 3 happines resource and your production its way bigger.I Ma sure that Nicolae would not atack you for quitte a while if you let him alone, you could build a city an the hill, cut the forest and wait for him, no need to go agresiv inside,and before you know you alredy are in a very strong pozition, what kind of an atck its a spear going on offensive? For example the city which i took from nakor was taken with my esort for that setler:4 axes and 1 spear.

And iron working with aztechs its useles 3/4 from Col was wai beter.I see now that you pnted righ on cooper and missed horses, well this a realy unlucky move.