[Spoilers] All rho21s lead to Rome

[rho21]

Turn 46

Score tracking
Brazil finished the first campus of the game. They also discovered a civic and grew (yet another) population.

Russia recruited the first prophet and founded the Red Army Choir, with the beliefs of Jesuit Education and Defender of the Faith. How they could decide against Choral Music with that name, I don't know. That also lets me see the Russian pantheon, which is Earth Goddess (+1:fath: from tiles with Charming or better appeal).

The new prophet is classical (costing 60 points), so at most 3 players have made it to the classical era. Neither Aztec nor Greece have.

Germany regrew a population, to 6 total.

Greece finished a fourth civic. It isn't Early Empire as their borders are still open.

Greek strength dropped by 27 this turn, while Aztec strength went down by 15. Very concerning. I may need to intervene to keep Greece alive.

The Aztecs spent another 105. I'm going to guess another tile plus an archer upgrade.


Military
My upgraded units start the march towards Kandy.

A barbarian scout has appeared next to Lake Trasimene. There's only one fogged tile that could have a camp anywhere around here. It could be a left-over scout from an old camp instead.
I have a warrior and a slinger over there ready to escort the settler (due in 3), they should be able to drive the scout away at least.

If there is a new camp on the fogged tile, the good news is that it's 7 tiles from both the horses in the vicinity - I believe that's just out of range.


Housekeeping
Greece accepted my declaration of friendship. May the peace last a thousand years.

Writing is discovered, next up is Currency. This will be boosted in 4 turns, and should finish in 6 or 7.

The civic switch decision is pretty tight. In light of the possible warring going on between the Aztecs and Greece, I think I'm going to switch civics next turn. Remember that the civic switch also includes a switch to Oligarchy and its wartime bonuses. Perhaps this, combined with seeing that they're no longer top in strength, will give the Aztecs some concerns about an attack on Greece.

The only fogged land tile in the SW is marked with a red circle.

[rho21]

Turn 47

Score tracking
Russia finished a civic, built a campus and grew a population. Two cities with 3 districts makes for a pretty district-heavy start.
The Aztecs finished a tech.
In the Aztec-Greece war, both sides lost more strength. The Aztecs down 16 to 215, the Greeks down 12 to a rather concerning 75. Greece spent 60 on something. At that price, probably a tile.


Military
The Aztecs have placed an encampment at They Live, pointing over in my direction. All the more important I capture this city before too long.

Kandy is making a minor nuisance of itself by blocking a river crossing location with a warrior. Hopefully too many people won't discover Early Empire, so their borders won't close quite yet and kick my units out as they try to squeeze through to their siege locations. The worst that can happen is I have to declare war early and kill some units.


Housekeeping
Mysticism is complete, work continues on Games & Recreation, now due in 7 turns. Mysticism has given me an envoy, but I have nowhere to place it, for now.

With that, it's time to switch governments. As planned, Oligarchy is enabled and civics are set to Conscription, Ilkum, Urban Planning and Charismatic Leader.

[rho21]

Turn 48

Score tracking
Brazil has finished a second campus.
Russia joined me on 7 techs.
Germany is last to a fourth civic. The Germans are looking pretty far behind right now, they are last in almost everything.
Greece and Aztec gained a population each.
War strengthometer: Aztec 210 (-5), Greece 135 (+60).


Military
My scouting warrior discovers the Greek capital of Sparta, with a Greek trader laying a road to the south east. I guess I'll follow that road shortly to find the other Greek city.

By Lake Trasimene, the barbarian warrior has run away to the SE. I'm guessing the camp is in the fog way down that way, so not an immediate problem.

More advancing on the Kandy front. My units are not prevented from crossing the river. War still scheduled to start on T50. And probably end on T51 unless I decide to milk some extra XP.


Housekeeping
Allia River has grown to size 2. It borrows a spare forested hill from Cannae to work ahead of the tobacco.


Here's a picture of Sparta:

[rho21]

I have a settler due out of Lake Trasimene next turn, and I finally have time to write up some thoughts about settling locations. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Note that all images in this post were taken a turn ago (turn 47), so don't reflect the current positions of units.

The North

To the north and east of Cannae is a large chunk of land that I think of as undoubtedly Roman. It is bounded by the sea to the west and north, and by river, mountains and lake to the east. I have three city sites marked out:

C1 is intended as my primary naval production centre. It has excellent terrain and several forests to chop, plus reasonable growth thanks to the bananas. It also secures Gypsum, particularly valuable as it is a quarryable resource which would let me boost Masonry. And of course it boosts Sailing, as a coastal city.

Could be founded on T56.

Just inland from C1, C2 fills the gap between Kandy and Cannae. No new luxuries, but a pretty productive site.

Could be founded on T55.

Further to the north lies C3. This would make an excellent border city with areas of Greek influence... assuming a border is something I'm interested in.
It has some excellent tiles including a fair bit of forest, and is very defensible by land. It also claims ivory and is coastal. Another strong naval production city.

Could be founded on T56.

Here's a view of the land east of C3. I expect the Greeks will get here first, if for no other reason than that I have lots of other space to expand into. Lots of forests, so would make an excellent naval production city down the line if needed.


The East

To the east lie Kandy and Nan Madol, and the upcoming war zone. There's one site available in this direction, and it wouldn't be too much of stretch given that all my forces will be over here ready to lend it support if needed.

I still haven't defogged all the land around C4, but it looks very productive. Lots of hills under those rainforests. Last turn's moves also revealed (a couple of?) cows in the tiles that would be shared with Kandy to the north.

Could be founded on T56.


The South

To the south of my current borders lies a good chunk of land that I also regard as likely core Roman territory, though the Aztec presence in They Live provides a path to the area.

C5 sits in the gap between my current cities and They Live: you can see the Aztec encampment in construction to press their claim to the area.
I have two city sites marked out. By comparison C5a saves a hill at the cost of being a slightly weaker location in the short term.
Either site claims Gypsum and a second source of horses and locks the Aztec out from this access route to the land to the west.

C5a could be founded on T52, C5b on T53.

On the coast SW of Lake Trasimene sits the desert site of C6. Despite the desert surroundings it provides plenty of food thanks to the floodplains. There's a little production around, but it would really need to build Petra in time to become a truly strong city. The wheat would provide an opportunity to boost Irrigation: farmable resources have been strangely lacking in the rest of my territory... well, I did settle on top of one.

Could be founded on T52.

C7 is further south, again split into two possible sites. C7b is the stronger option in the short term, but lies an annoying distance from the coast. Moreover, C7a leaves room for another city SW-SW from the C7b site, and works nicely with the location of C5 off to the NE. C7b offers a farmable resource, while C7a has more gypsum. Both give access to the valuable furs tile.

C7a could be founded on T53, C7b would take until T54.

There's a river to the SE of C7 offering the possibility of more cities down that way (or another route to the Aztecs, for that matter. Anyway, that area's still fogged and well out of my planned settling range just now.

[rho21]

My current preference is C5a. It can be settled quickly and helps to spot and guard against Aztec incursion from They Live while most of my army is off to the east. It's also a strong city in its own right and grabs gypsum so I can research Masonry when needed for walls. I could be tempted by C5b instead though, certainly.

C1 is my second choice. It takes much longer to plant, but getting a naval production city out sooner means it will be larger and more productive by the time I need to start making a navy. It's very much a backlines location though, which I can rely on being available for my next wave of settlers.

Thoughts and suggestions very much appreciated.

[Garath]

Well, I think we can probably discount C6 right now due to the barbarian presence - doesn't the camp have to be pretty much on top of the site, since I can't see it in any of those screenshots? I can't imagine you want to be diverting military to deal with that at a time like this.

I'm definitely not worried about establishing a border with the Greeks in the immediate future, since they appear to be having enough problems with the Aztecs that they are unlikely to be thinking too hard about settlers right now anyway. Certainly not interested enough to spend several extra turns walking up there rather than to other sites, so C3 is out for me.

C2 just doesn't seem to have enough value to found now over better cities, and there's no convenience vote for it either as it's not a particularly fast city to found.

C7 looks like a clear overstretch at the moment. You don't know enough about what's down there, and you're going to be antagonising the Aztecs soon enough that they might well be in a very opportunistic mood.

C4 I quite like, I think. I agree that the city looks very solid, and its presence would really solidify you against Aztec challenge or counterattack against the cities you are looking to take, if I remember my geography correctly.

C1 looks like a fairly clear winner for the most solid city. But it's *so* boringly back-line! And I really feel the cost of the extra turns spent walking this settler up to get to it directly past the capital, when it could be settled from the capital in future. All the same, though, if it's going to be 20 turns or more before the next settler, it might well be the right choice.

That leaves C5, I think. Despite that you suggest it's your favourite, it's the one I think I'm least qualified to advise on - I simply don't have any idea how bad it's likely to be that it's already in range of an enemy Encampment. I assume it's not a good thing, at least!

Overall, I think I favour C5 *if* it's not in direct danger from the Aztecs in your opinion - certainly you really don't want *them* to settle there! - and after that I think I would have raised C4 above C1.

[rho21]

Well, I think we can probably discount C6 right now due to the barbarian presence - doesn't the camp have to be pretty much on top of the site, since I can't see it in any of those screenshots? I can't imagine you want to be diverting military to deal with that at a time like this.

I had assumed the camp was 1 tile SW of C6, but given where the scout has been running (off to the SE), I'm now guessing the camp is off in the fog way down that way.

I have a warrior and a slinger by Lake Trasimene waiting to escort the settler anyway, so I could handle a camp next to the city if one does exist.

However I think it's right to rule out C6 for now whatever: it's just not a strong enough city site. I'm tempted to change its location entirely, moving a couple of squares away from the coast along the river towards C7 and shifting that city around a bit.

I'm definitely not worried about establishing a border with the Greeks in the immediate future, since they appear to be having enough problems with the Aztecs that they are unlikely to be thinking too hard about settlers right now anyway. Certainly not interested enough to spend several extra turns walking up there rather than to other sites, so C3 is out for me.

Agreed, though the flat land means it's no further to walk than C1 in practice.

C2 just doesn't seem to have enough value to found now over better cities, and there's no convenience vote for it either as it's not a particularly fast city to found.

C7 looks like a clear overstretch at the moment. You don't know enough about what's down there, and you're going to be antagonising the Aztecs soon enough that they might well be in a very opportunistic mood.

Agreed.

C4 I quite like, I think. I agree that the city looks very solid, and its presence would really solidify you against Aztec challenge or counterattack against the cities you are looking to take, if I remember my geography correctly.

It's tucked in between the two city states conquered by the Aztecs (separated from They Live by a lake) and guards the southern flank of Kandy. Certainly somewhere I need to secure if I end up controlling Nan Madol but making no progress into the Aztec core. It would require more defence in the short term than Kandy does though.

I think I want to slot it in to the next round of settlers. Right now I'm hoping I can switch into colonization and build settlers in most if not all of my cities in 20 to 30 turns or so once the ones I'm founding / capturing now are fully established. It's possible I can get another couple of settlers out before that, but I think infrastructure builds will be taking priority.

C1 looks like a fairly clear winner for the most solid city. But it's *so* boringly back-line! And I really feel the cost of the extra turns spent walking this settler up to get to it directly past the capital, when it could be settled from the capital in future. All the same, though, if it's going to be 20 turns or more before the next settler, it might well be the right choice.

If it weren't for the walking distance, I think I'd be going here right away. Using settlers to claim border sites rather than backlines is only really a concern if I can't stake a certain claim to those border regions militarily. If the campaign against the Aztecs goes well, I'll have more room to expand into than I can fill before most of the game is done, given how expensive settlers get.

That leaves C5, I think. Despite that you suggest it's your favourite, it's the one I think I'm least qualified to advise on - I simply don't have any idea how bad it's likely to be that it's already in range of an enemy Encampment. I assume it's not a good thing, at least!

Overall, I think I favour C5 *if* it's not in direct danger from the Aztecs in your opinion - certainly you really don't want *them* to settle there! - and after that I think I would have raised C4 above C1.

District defences can't fire at other districts, so the encampment is not a real threat to the city itself (and vice versa). Of course it does provide cover for a unit to fire from, so it would be a right pain with a catapult ensconced there and enough other military to prevent me attacking the encampment. On the other hand, if there's that much military there, a ram would be just as dangerous.

Anyway it's no threat at all until the Aztecs can complete both the encampment and city walls. It's annoying how far They Live is from Nan Madol: otherwise, I'd definitely be sending units straight over here to remove it from consideration. As it is, perhaps they will have time to build those walls.

Overall, I'm not too concerned. I have a couple of units in the area to help defend (though not the money to upgrade them for a bit), plus my cities are pretty strong defensively thanks to having legions. I doubt the Aztecs can find the force to significantly threaten here at the same time as defending against my army in the east.

[rho21]

Played a turn at lunchtime at work in the hope of keeping the game moving along. Didn't help, it seems.

Turn 49

Score tracking
Russia, Brazil and Aztec all gained both a civic and a tech this turn. Germany gained a tech and founded a third city.


Military
No problems advancing towards Kandy. Hopefully everything will kick off smoothly next turn or the one after. They have a 2-charge builder to capture that has just connected elephants. As far as units go, they have 2 archers and a warrior near the city, a warrior off over the river to the west and I believe one more warrior off to the north.


Housekeeping
The settler is complete at Lake Trasimene, which will regrow next turn. It moves towards C5, escorted by the slinger and with the warrior circling around the mountains to the south to meet up with them as the city is founded.

Lake Trasimene starts a builder, as does Cannae which just finished a trader. The trader is rebased to Allia River, as the best option for a trade route for now.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

If you browse oledavy's and Archduke's threads from PBEM2, oledavy had an encampment that threatened one of Archduke's cities - it was mostly dangerous because the field of fire cleared out defending units, while providing a safe harbor for ranged units of Dave's to threaten the Archduke. The geography was a little unique there that gave it added power (a complicated network of rivers), but if you want to see how a close encampment plays out in practice I'd look there.

[RFS-81]

First of all, sorry for being a bad dedlurker. I didn't really have anything to add. And to make matters worse, I've stupidly clicked on the genlurker thread and read a bit before realizing that I wasn't supposed to read that thread. I'm spoiled on some high-level details about the map layout, so I guess I should restrict myself to immediate tactical concerns until you know more about your starting continent. With some wars coming up, there will probably be some of those, at least.

If some genlurker is reading this, maybe they could PM me, so I can explain what I know and decide if that's too much to keep dedlurking.