WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Meiz]

@novice - I’m surprised you’re pushing back on my role PM question to Jabbz, which he has incidentally totally ignored despite having zero vote pressure on him. I’m not asking him to quote anything, I’m asking him for account for what I see as an incredible sequence of events where he opens the PM to grab the role name, looks past the description of the role, and loads another site to learn how the role works. Not additional nuance about it, but the basic mechanics/class of role it is. Why are you protecting Jabbz here?!

novice is not protecting Jabbz, but we have a past here at RB WW games where metagaming these type of things was popular. We've fortunately moved pass that, but it's a good mention since we have new players and quoting / rephrasing gm messages is prohibited.

[Lewwyn]

Gaspar votes for a number of people through day 1. Halfway through he votes for thrawn:

I see nothing to dissuade from my original diagnosis that youre all idiots.

I dont honestly remember what novices question was but any answer will have to wait for a non-mobile response.  My recollection is that he always thinks I'm scum anyway.

As far as sunrise, I play by feel. I don't expect everyone to agree with my methods but I don't play worrying about what others think. I voted for Meiz because I just watched Meiz play two games where he's either inquisitive or trying to lead the village from minute one. He didn't do that here. Im not judging him against your baseline, I'm judging him against his.  Period.

I don't have anything exciting to add beyond that. I still maintain novices original post as scummy but he's seemed novicey since then.  I don't like GESs posts. I dont like Commodore posts and I don't like Lewwyns posts. I really like WKs posts but they aren't helping. But I agree that thrawn feels like he's trying too hard.

Gazglum died for this:

I don't like Lewwyns posts. I really like WKs posts but they aren't helping. But I agree that thrawn feels like he's trying too hard.

You don't like Lewwyn's posts, but you like his reasoning on Thrawn? Do you think they might both be villains? Does it give you pause, joining Lewwyn on a vote?

Pretty sure.
His response to Gazglum:

Heh, I was just coming in here to say basically this.  I generally have a Lewwyn agnostic position on day one, as I've stated many times before, so when I read him a little off, I just let it lie until we have at least a day under our belts.  I do this because I know I'm predisposed to think him scummy and I'd rather wait until my scumdar is calibrated.

I'm having a hard time today, tbh.  I'm not sure if its the roleplay or if its something else but the last couple games I've read the scum just lept off the page at me.  I find myself today grasping at stuff - novice's post was a scummy thing to do but he's seemed relatively useful since then; Commodore is irritating me but its probably because he's Commodore or because he's roleplaying a dolphin; I find myself glossing over the posts who are RP'ing characters I'm not familiar with; thrawn feels fake but I'm not sure if its because he's trying too hard because he caught flack in the last game or if its because he's scum.  

I'll have to do a re-read but I don't really love hunting that way, I prefer it to occur more naturally.  And I really don't like doubting myself.  I seem to recall the first RP game pissing me off too, so maybe that is it.

I have to reread? Gaspar on Day 1, also the woe is me is here as well. I thought woe is me was scummy Gaspar?

Sunrise calls Gaspar on his thrawn vote:

Who is saying thrawn is trying too hard? Aren't they all actually saying he's holding back and being much less active than he was as town in WW47? Are you again joining a wagon without bothering to read what the wagon driver's claims are??

He's trying too hard not to be thrawn from WW47.  He caught a fair bit of flack in the lurker thread from lurkers and dead players.  And now I think he's holding back in response to that, or maybe because he's scum and he saw that his active self drew too much attention.  I don't know - if I was sure, I'd be calling you all idiots much more vociferously.  But its as good a theory as I have right now, so I'm voting for him.

That's the best I can do to explain an early vote based on tone reads, as opposed to my later votes, based off tone reads.  If I'm still alive in 4 days, I'll still be voting based off tone reads.  *shrug*

So Gaspar is now explaining why thrawn is scummy. WHY DID HE NEED ME TO CONVINCE HIM!?

Oh man Fuck you Gaspar.


Gaspar's commodore vote:

My very quick read of the period where I was asleep is everyone seems somewhat afraid of making a mistake except for Meiz and maybe sunrise.  That gives me a town lean on Meiz.

Some rapid fire reads:

Thrawn seems earnest and feels like a mislynch given his posting today.  I will be moving my vote.

pindicator I need a reread, but feels very lynchable at the moment.

Don't like the dolphin.  Just feels lazy.

Love Omar.  Don't love GES.

Alhambram and Jabbz probably deserve to be lynched, but I'm not for day 1 policy lynches.

Lewwyn is a day 1 policy non-lynch for me.

Rowain seems pretty low-effort so far, but I am also predisposed to not want to lynch Rowain because I know I am predisposed to think he is scum.

Kaiser I have a hard time getting a read on.  Gonna try to rectify that as well.

Going to try and avoid sunrise and novice today as well because they haven't played recently and its good to have them back and also they've been driving the bus on me and I'm trying to not let that color my perception.

Going to park my vote on Commodore for about a half-hour until I come back after a re-read on pindi, Commodore, GES and Kaiser.

Gaspar says he needs to reread again. Gaspar comes off thrawn. Gaspar says he needs to PARK HIS VOTE on commodore. Does that sound like someone who is convinced commodore is scum? It sounds like he's preparing for all the evantualities of a day 1 lynch.

He comes back with:

So thoughts...

Pindicator has contributed literally nothing.

Commodore basically has been on me all day because he didn't like some nonsense from the early part of the day.  He's also been very argumentative, while both feeling no pressure and having no town reads.  Feels scummy.

GES has also parked on me for no meaningful reason.  My guess would be that reason is he's lazy scum.  I sort of get a sense that sunrise and novice made it easy to park on me by presenting the first real case of the game and that's why I've had a lot of clingers voting for me.

I was going to go read Kaiser but he just critted me with that Roland Memorial Wall of Text™.  Might read later.

Anyway, I'm comfortable voting for any of those 3 but I'm sticking with Commodore for now.

Again being non commital and opening the door here to swap onto Pindicator if need be.

Let's get to the point where I've started to work on thrawn. Gaspar says:

I get what you're saying Lew but I just think its more likely Thrawn has retreated to his shell and doesn't know what to do because everything he's done in these games has gotten him criticism.  Surely he'd be doing better with a little guidance.  Maybe he wouldn't, but I think that will reveal itself over time.

If I were to lynch a self-pitier, it would be pindicator, but I feel like if he were scum he'd feel obliged to try harder.

Commodore OTOH - like, what has he contributed?  His post count is higher but like... he read me as scum for some nothing and then locked on it all day and only moved when he needed to find another lynch candidate?

Fake edit:  Thrawn's most recent posts just cement my opinion where he's flailing.  Pindicator's attitude today has been totally unhelpful but I think he's town.  I just think he'd help his scum buddies.  If it comes down to him vs thrawn though I'd vote pindicator because I really hate the give up bullshit.

He's reversed opinion on thrawn here even though he's suspected him. What does he mean thrawn's retreatted into his shell? He's in the thread posting more and more. Also it doesn't jibe with his earlier discussion of thrawn.

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

Do I think you're scum?  No, I think you could be scum.  I think Commodore is scum.

If I had to rate the possible lynch candidates I would go Comm > pin > thrawn.

Other people I have at least in the "questionable" category: Jabbz, Rowain, GES, Adrien, Bob

Other people I don't want to lynch right now due to either meta reasons or town reads: novice, Meiz, Lewwyn

People I am strategically ignoring: sunrise, Cyneheard

Here he is suddenly sure that comm is scum even though very little has changed from his last post. thrawn is 3rd on his list even though just a moment ago he was telling me he didn't believe thrawn was scum and flailing too much to be scum.
He says pin over thrawn because of strength of player:

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

I hate this.

I still hate this.



Then the kicker:

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

I hate this.

Sell ME on it Lew, then.  You know me well enough to know hammering isn't going to convince me.  Where am I wrong?

It's suddenly my job to do it. I'm the one who's gotta sell everyone and be the hero and take all the blame.

Man Gaspar has been pushing my buttons all game. Day 2 he got me to dig in deeper by playing off my case on WK.


TLDR

-Gaspar shows hesitancy and woe is me my scum reads are off this game ON DAY 1

-Gaspar votes for thrawn and points out how thrawn is scummy. Defends his vote of thrawn

-Gaspar "parks" his vote on Commodore, is noncommital.

-Gaspar gets aggro about Commodore suddenly (knows comm can switch and I'm leading a successful charge on thrawn so its safe Day 1)

-Gaspar defends thrawn, then puts him as his 3rd lynch target

-Gaspar begs me to sell him on the lynch, votes pin and claims both pin and comm are scum thereby tying them together. He knows Comm is scum and that Pin is NOT goign down Day 1 and I'm going to take the blame for what he thinks is a Day 1 villager mislynch.



Day 1 reading with the knowledge we have now Gaspar is scummy as hell.

[Lewwyn]

@Lewwyn - if you die and flip town who do you want us to lynch? Today you’ve been on Cyneheard, Homer, Gaspar, and sent a lot of stuff pindicator’s way too. Setting aside trying to save yourself who do you think the most likely remaining scum are? Asking sincerely since if you’re town I trust your reads the most.

If I'm lynched, Go after Gaspar and Alhambram. Cyneheard is already gone which is a blow for the scum.


Do not let people fool you onto Kaiser. I went through his posts and he does not read scummy except for the simple lack of them.

[Rowain]

Gaspar

lets see what triggers now

[Lewwyn]

I've only had time to go over Day 1 Gaspar so far and taking Gaspar's Day 1 and Day 3 together convinces me. I will go through his Day 2 as well, but as far as I remember he basically rides the bus on commodore.

[sunrise089]

I want to lynch pindicator. I will switch to Lewwyn though if someone other than the two of them is going to hang. I’ve been on Gaspar all game and do not think he’s cleared but I think it’s too cute by half to leave both Lewwyn and pindicator alive.

[Rowain]

@pindi whom did you guard and why?

[pindicator]

TLDR

-Gaspar shows hesitancy and woe is me my scum reads are off this game ON DAY 1

-Gaspar votes for thrawn and points out how thrawn is scummy. Defends his vote of thrawn

-Gaspar "parks" his vote on Commodore, is noncommital.

-Gaspar gets aggro about Commodore suddenly (knows comm can switch and I'm leading a successful charge on thrawn so its safe Day 1)

-Gaspar defends thrawn, then puts him as his 3rd lynch target

-Gaspar begs me to sell him on the lynch, votes pin and claims both pin and comm are scum thereby tying them together. He knows Comm is scum and that Pin is NOT goign down Day 1 and I'm going to take the blame for what he thinks is a Day 1 villager mislynch.

Again, why I think Lewwyn is town. This is pretty much exactly my impressions I got of Gaspar on my reread yesterday of Day 1. The "park" vote was what I noticed as standing out on the reread. Also that Commodore is addressing almost every attacker EXCEPT GASPAR. Gaspar was the very first person to tie me and Commodore together, putting us on the first step to this wonderful situation we have today. He's also doing a lot of "you guys suck" but not really trying to persuade anyone to join.

[Lewwyn]

Also don't let people fool you onto Jabbz, I don't read him as scum either.

[sunrise089]

@novice - I’m surprised you’re pushing back on my role PM question to Jabbz, which he has incidentally totally ignored despite having zero vote pressure on him. I’m not asking him to quote anything, I’m asking him for account for what I see as an incredible sequence of events where he opens the PM to grab the role name, looks past the description of the role, and loads another site to learn how the role works. Not additional nuance about it, but the basic mechanics/class of role it is. Why are you protecting Jabbz here?!

novice is not protecting Jabbz, but we have a past here at RB WW games where metagaming these type of things was popular. We've fortunately moved pass that, but it's a good mention since we have new players and quoting / rephrasing gm messages is prohibited.

Fine. I’d be more worried if my question wasn’t falling into a black hole. Will you make note of this exchange at least and try to help encourage Jabbz to answer in a rule-approved way?