[Lurkers] Putting the Old Fogeys into a List

[mackoti]

Rusten had a very good start but looks to have been slowed a bit.  His micro looked quite sloppy when we were scouting him.

Say it ain't so.

It's entertaining, but NobleGas are maybe a bit too eager to call out their opponents micro mistakes..  I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong re Rusten or whoever, but micro plan where you are always working improved tiles and never "wasting" a worker turn is not a good micro plan. You kind of aim for that, but if those things do not happen occasionally I think it's pretty much guaranteed that you are not playing your start to its limits. Sure, if Serdoa took 8+ turns to improve his grass pigs there probably was room for improvement etc, but in general it's quite hard to judge this kind of stuff from the outside.

With regards to their own micro/decisions it seems that the significant cost from picking Byz has now been addressed in Gaspar's nice analysis post. The conclusion that Mining would somehow be a must-have tech in CtH misses the point though.

Totaly agree with  Fin here. You can let a city to grow size 7 to triple whip a settler and having 2-3 tiles unimproved becasue the return of those tiles is minimal and workers are needed in other place. And getting extra workers which will gain very litle will delay a setler  which can be important  so yeah working some bare tiles is many times good. I remeber they were saying near same thing in some pbem we played , but they lost the races to all wonders because they wanted the best outcome for theyr workers.When I want a wonder or a key spot I dont care about worker efiency or working improved tiles.

[Fintourist]

With regards to their own micro/decisions it seems that the significant cost from picking Byz has now been addressed in Gaspar's nice analysis post. The conclusion that Mining would somehow be a must-have tech in CtH misses the point though.

I don't understand the point re Mining.

I assume their point is that in most starts you do want BW as soon as you have other critical worker techs --> Mining is almost always a good tech. But having other useful worker techs to start achieves more or less the same thing.

In this particular PBEM there was a benefit from having the slightly more expensive mining (vs. Agri/Fishing/Hunting) and Agri/Mining was the strongest starting starting tech pair. However, many other combos were also completely playable. Wheel/Mysticism is of course not one of those.. 

Luckily for the NobleGas, it does look like they will not be punished in this game for their slower start. Geopolitics/neighbor lottery seems quite favorable for them. Serdoa is overall weakened by everybody pink-dotting him and superdeath is self-destructing at an impressive speed. 

[Thoth]

Fintourist Wrote:

(Yesterday, 08:47)naufragar Wrote:

(November 10th, 2020, 23:37)Gaspar Wrote:
Rusten had a very good start but looks to have been slowed a bit. His micro looked quite sloppy when we were scouting him.


yikes Say it ain't so.


It's entertaining, but NobleGas are maybe a bit too eager to call out their opponents micro mistakes.. mischief I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong re Rusten or whoever, but micro plan where you are always working improved tiles and never "wasting" a worker turn is not a good micro plan. You kind of aim for that, but if those things do not happen occasionally I think it's pretty much guaranteed that you are not playing your start to its limits. Sure, if Serdoa took 8+ turns to improve his grass pigs there probably was room for improvement etc, but in general it's quite hard to judge this kind of stuff from the outside.

With regards to their own micro/decisions it seems that the significant cost from picking Byz has now been addressed in Gaspar's nice analysis post. The conclusion that Mining would somehow be a must-have tech in CtH misses the point though.

Totaly agree with Fin here. You can let a city to grow size 7 to triple whip a settler and having 2-3 tiles unimproved becasue the return of those tiles is minimal and workers are needed in other place. And getting extra workers which will gain very litle will delay a setler which can be important so yeah working some bare tiles is many times good. I remeber they were saying near same thing in some pbem we played , but they lost the races to all wonders because they wanted the best outcome for theyr workers.When I want a wonder or a key spot I dont care about worker efiency or working improved tiles.

Efficiency is good but it takes second place to effectiveness even if that means there are a few "wasted" worker turns or sub-optimal yield tiles worked from time to time.

[pindicator]

What's that saying? The best is the enemy of the good? Or something like that

[mackoti]

Do we have a coinflip oracle between the leaders of the game? Man this game is good .Excelent call by lewyn , now i realy dont know who I want to get it?

Lewyn for the good call, or Rusten because i said he is favourite to win...

[pindicator]

It sounds like Lewwyn might have won it on turn order, with this being a PBEM and him playing ahead of Rusten.

[mackoti]

It sounds like Lewwyn might have won it on turn order, with this being a PBEM and him playing ahead of Rusten.

Forgot that....

[Thoth]

What's that saying? The best is the enemy of the good? Or something like that

More like confusing the means for the ends.

[darrelljs]

“Il meglio è l'inimico del bene” or the best is the enemy of the good...Voltaire .  I use a modified “don’t let best get in the way of better” at work all the time, but I don’t give credit .

Darrell

[Miguelito]

But Thoth's has a different, and imo more fitting, meaning. Dont work only improved tiles for the sake of only working improved tiles.