I think that was more a matter of their culture blocking passage on the coast tiles necessary to reach the island?
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[NO PLAYERS] Lurking and Mapmaking PB55
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Agree with Tarkeel. If you look at the actual dotmap, you see that they are aware of it.
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
Who do I pretend to be, bob? Maybe in a twisted turn of events I should claim to actually be SD? Thus not only have I played in every game, but in almost every game on multiple accounts?
"I know that Kilpatrick is a hell of a damned fool, but I want just that sort of man to command my cavalry on this expedition."
- William Tecumseh Sherman (November 23rd, 2020, 09:24)GeneralKilCavalry Wrote: Maybe in a twisted turn of events I should claim to actually be SD? That would be a plot twist. 
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
It's that time of the PB were we have a nice T100 report. First of all you can find all the data here: Tracking PB55
Before I start with the actual numbers let me shortly summarize the last 50 turns:
And here the score as of T100
Total Commerce We now left the early turns were commerce alone is a good indicator of someone doing well. Remember this is only the sum of all worked commerce yield tiles + trade yield + anything else that gives extra commerce yield. Not included are any specialists providing beakers or gold or anything other that gives gold directly like shrines. As of T100 we have the following ranking between players Current TotalCommerce
Other then last time this metric is now of more use as the tiny fluctiations from the early turns are gone. From just the commerce itself it looks like Ruff_Hi/civac is on his way to a dominant position. But this is not the whole picture. It's interesting to see that Gavagai and Commodore/Pindicator are fairly equal on the numbers despite their early conflict. FIN leaders are doing pretty good. But for a full picture we also want to look at the maintenance. For this I am tracking the city maintenance, civic maintenance and inflation. If we sum those up we have:
Unfortunately I missed to include tracking the unit maintenance and supply costs, which I will do in the future. Now if we subtract this maintenance from the current total commerce we get these numbers
Now keep in mind that no specialist, shrines or modifiers of other sources are included in these numbers and I am missing some maintenance values, so the overall worth of these numbers can most certainly be disputed. Still there is some interesting information in hear. We see that Ruff_Hi's position isn't that dominant. Jowy is doing pretty good with smaller empire as dies Lewwyn/Gaspar. We also see that Gavagai's economy is worth of then that of his recent and current rivals. I also want to point this out before somebody else asks it. I do plan to track more numbers with the next version: Unit maintenance and supply cost, Science output at 100% and Gold output at 100%. Those should give a better overview of the economic situation of each player. Lastly let's look at the cumulative total commerce.
A few things become clear here. Early conflicts hurt the economy, FIN is doing pretty good. Financial Bonus Next we look at the actual Financial Bonus. As a disclaimer just as last time, here I collected all the extra commerce a player (would) have gained if he was working Financial tiles. For example if you worked a coast tile you normally gain 2 commerce and 3 commerce with FIN. In this case my tool notes down 1 extra commerce. You will also find that I am tracking the CtH implemenation of Financial as well as the normal BtS implemenation for comparison. Looking at the current turn numbers first:
Ruff_Hi is doing pretty good with FIN, but he also has more cities. Jowy could do a bit better with FIN, but maybe the colossus will help there. Next up the cumulated Bonus of the CtH implemenation:
Ruff_Hi is doing pretty good with FIN, but keep in mind that he had a coastal start and therefore was able to work good FIN tiles earlier then the other FIN leaders. Amicalola seems to be the only lackluster FIN leader. When two other non-FIN leaders are doing better then you in this category then you need to work your trait some more. Let's turn our look at the BtS implementation of FIN now. Again the current turn numbers. I've also put the delta between CtH and BtS in parenthesis:
As you can see the difference in the actual turn numbers between CtH and BtS are getting smaller, but BtS would still earn more cash. But for a better comparison between those implementation the cumulative values are still more intersting. Again these are the BtS numbers with the difference towards CtH in parenthesis.
As you can see the CtH implementation reduced the overall commerce output by some significant numbers. The output was reduced for everybody at least by 25% and for the most players by 50% or more. Protective Bonus With more and more foreign trade routes coming into play we see differences between CtH 1.3 and CtH 1.4 versions of PRO. Let's look at the 1.4 version first. Remember this version gave extra commerce only to domestic trade routes. Current turn numbers:
Cumulative turn numbers:
This map is so far good for PRO. Most cities are on the same landmass. But it is obvious that the benefit of PRO is waning for most players, mainly because more islands are settled, which generate a better foreign trade route or one with equal value to PRO. In my tracking tool I calculate the total trade income of a player with and without PRO. If a player has a 3 commerce domestic trade route with PRO and a 3 commerce foreign trade route without it, I count that as a 0 bonus commerce for PRO. If you look at Superdeath it is also clear that you need to connect your cities early to benefit from PRO in the early turns. Building the Great Lighthouse can help with PRO, but only if you generate more domestic trade routes then foreign island trade routes with it. Now let's compare this to the 1.3 version, which gave extra commerce on every trade route. As with the FIN CtH and FIN BtS comparisson, I've put the delta in parenthesis Current turn numbers:
Cumulative turn numbers:
Similar to the FIN comparisson we see that the change from foreign to domestic trade routes was a significant nerf and a justified one as I will show later. ORG maintenance bonus There are three things that are always surprising me with ORG:
I hope I can disprove some of those with the following numbers. Current turn numbers:
Cumulated ORG bonus:
Those are some pretty good numbers and as you can see ORG is far from being totally weak even on Monarch. Of course you have to play towards the strength of the trait by growing big with both city count and population. Of course Ruff_Hi with his big empire would do good here, but the others aren't far behind. As you will see later for some players ORG would have been even better then FIN. Looking at the numbers I think ORG is just ok as it is right now, because on top of the civic maintenance you also get two good buildings in the lighthouse and the courthouse. I expect that after this more players will play combos like IMP/ORG, FIN/ORG or PRO/ORG more often. Misc First of all I have to say that I don't have numbers for the AGG maintenance bonus. I seem to have an bug in my tracking tool in this version of the mod. By the time I recognized it, it was already to late, because we already have a loss of data for this. I also stopped tracking the tech race with Mysticism and Hunting, because everybody got those shortly after T50, except for Jowy, who still hasn't researched Mysticism. Don't forget he plays Native America, which has its monument UB on archery. Comparing traits The main goal of all this tracking of course is to compare the economic traits related around commerce income or maintenance reduction. So let's do this:  If we look at the numbers we can see the following:
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
ORG scales with Courthouses though, and can often be the difference if you build them at all.
As usual, thanks for these datapoints Charriu! (November 27th, 2020, 04:36)Tarkeel Wrote: ORG scales with Courthouses though, and can often be the difference if you build them at all. I was going to say something similar about courthouses. I usually build them when they'll save >4gpt, but with ORG the saving might only be >3gpt and they get built quicker and earlier. It'd be good to know how that extra income stacks up against the FIN bank bonus. My guess is that - since courthouses come earlier and will get built in more cities than banks - ORG courthouses will get a good head start on FIN banks and probably stay ahead (for civs that are doing well at that point in the game). I don't suppose you're tracking number of banks and courthouses built are you Charriu? 
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
November 27th, 2020, 07:14
(This post was last modified: November 27th, 2020, 07:22 by Charriu.)
You are right about the courthouse. And yes the ORG player gets a head start with them. But the bank for the most part grants more extra commerce then the courthouse.
Unfortunately no I'm not tracking banks and courthouses built. But I may put it in the tracking tool if it is easily done. EDIT: I try to track as few data as possible. I don't want to slow down or crash the server because the data gets to big. 
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
Turn order drama!
I don't entirely follow what happened here though, or who (if anyone) is in the wrong. I guess Lewwyn has been observing a turn split for the last several turns, and SD is arguing that it doesn't matter since they weren't actually at war?
FWIW, I think Lewwyn is in the right here. Turnsplits aren't only for actual wars, but also for other tense turns such as settler races. Given the geopolitical situation I think it's good play for them to settle out a turn split early, and they have indeed taken pains to play behind Superdeath for at least 5 turns. Lewwyn is also right that SD is usually very quick to add time whenever the situation favors him, but he didn't do it this time.
As for Jowy's comment that it wasn't communicated, I remember reading here something along the lines of "you should be able to tell when someone turnsplits you". |
