OO - Hannah and Arendal have already converted, and Elohim don't have religion yet, so converting can't really hurt our local relations. I'm fine either way; you're right it won't bring much benefit anyways.
Remnants site is ok by me.
As for fixing our economy, what about fishing -> sailing? we have trade routes to Elohim and Elves right now, but aren't getting any benefit from them (still just getting 1gpt routes). Looks like there are some islands just off the mainland. +1GPT in every city would be very nice, as would pearls.
I definitely agree on philo-KotE-drama next, but I think fishing-sailing-[*edit: writing-] trade (in some order) might give more econ benefit than currency.
(July 21st, 2015, 06:40)Mardoc Wrote: Yeah, don't worry about it Brick. RL happens.
Auror - I wouldn't require a 5 turn set just yet, but it's a good reminder that the option to stop early is open. I don't think the turns take that long yet, as we're not in any wars - it's just unanticipated real life interference so far. I'd be fine with DaveV doing any of 7, 12, or 17 turns, myself.
I don't remember saying anything regarding that (think it was Jale), but yeah I agree. Let's keep it at 10 turns still and drop to 5 later.
(July 21st, 2015, 05:41)DaveV Wrote: My thoughts - our economy sucks. Consumption would help, but it would be a tight squeeze to finish Currency and Philosophy before the end of the GA, and Currency is a lot of beakers into a tech that doesn't have a lot of immediate benefit. My proposal for tech progression: Philosophy, KotE, Drama, Sanitation, Currency, Corruption of Spirit.
I agree with the tech progression, except for Currency maybe. Getting more TRs could help from Trade/Sailing/Currency but I'd put them after CoS. Consumption would be a great help to our economy obviously though. Sailing would probably give us TRs with Lanun or/and some other more far away Civ.
Playing the turns soon.
EDIT: I noticed we're still pumping out settlers quite a bit. Probably need to slow down that a bit, these cities are costing us quite a lot of money.
Thanks, Dave. That puts us back to Aurorarcher, I think?
A couple comments:
City micro:
Steinvik should put up a Gate-synergy building before the gate. Probably a carnival if we're still trying for the Catacombs.
Graelingvig should probably work a tile instead of the Artist now that it's claimed the gold tile. Which I can't believe Einion let us get away with
Vargstad needs some worker love, to get it at least one more aristofarm to grow with.
Skadistad should also probably fire its artist now. I can see an argument for third ring, but we can rehire the artist after we grow.
Nidhoggstad should steal a tile from Bjornlingburg instead of working bare grass. Probably the mine to put up that carnval quicker.
Remember to revisit all the cities when the Golden Age ends. The relative value of tiles will change.
Glad to see you got us into good civics.
We are only four warriors away from our cap, be careful not to build too many.
Taking inflation into account, the point of breakeven hammers/gpt for Markets vs. Courthouses is 8 gpt maintenance. Skadistad has now hit that point, and we have a bunch of other cities that are likely to join the club in the next few turns as we settle more cities and they grow. Still not urgent to put up Courthouses, but consider it as an option now. They'll only get more valuable as the game goes on: city maintenance can only go up, and inflation will keep increasing too.
Sixteen cities, five settlers in queues, 18 workers - we need to shift toward more workers again as queues empty. Particularly since we're about to settle a jungle belt. At bare minimum I want 21 workers for 1/city, but it's going to be hard to overshoot; I suspect we could find useful things for 40 to do. Especially once we get Sanitation in hand and turbocharge our city growth rates.
Trade v. Currency
Trade route costs 257+515+723+611 beakers, or 2106 beakers. Will grant us ~3 gpt per city in more and better trade (although the better we do with foreign trade, the less that matters), might get us +1 happy if Pearls are convenient, and would get us a few new food tiles. Plus some extra health, but no city is near its health cap yet. Assume we do get Pearls and improve trade routes at 20 cities, that's +1 happy/city and 60 gpt. Also the option to build libraries for +25% beakers. I don't think we can afford to run Foreign Trade.
Currency would get us ~40 gpt, since our expenses are ~200 gpt, we need to run at least that much gold on average, and also +1 happy most places (markets). Also the option to build moneychangers for +25% gold. It costs 1449 beakers.
So at the moment, the two are darn near equal. In both cases, we have to spend about 35 beakers up front for 1 gpt and similar ancillary benefits. I expect as time goes on...they'll still be nearly equal, since both of them scale their benefits with # of cities.
I can see the case for researching either, but at the moment I prefer Currency. Moneychangers are worth more to us than Libraries since we have to run such a low slider, and more importantly, we can get its benefit sooner. All we need for Consumption is a revolt: to benefit properly from Trade, we need two overseas cities, in addition to more tech. When our golden age expires, we're going to go from a breakeven rate of ~100 bpt to ~25; I'd rather bump up our research rate by 40 sooner, than by 60 later on.
Plus it's one of the prereqs for Gambling Houses, which go nicely with Gates
One possible exception. If I remember right, a Great Merchant's next priority is Currency. It might make sense to research Trade directly, and try to bulb Currency. The trouble is, I can't see how to do that and also get a near-term golden age for the revolt to Consumption; Currency is worth less if we have to burn a turn in anarchy.
(July 21st, 2015, 13:02)Aurorarcher Wrote: I don't remember saying anything regarding that (think it was Jale), but yeah I agree. Let's keep it at 10 turns still and drop to 5 later.
Ah, right. Was Jalepeno. My apologies for mixing you two up. Doesn't change my opinion, just my memories.
Still, if any particular person wants a shorter set, feel free. I just don't think we're to the point of everyone in 5-turn sets.
Quote:Playing the turns soon.
Ooh, I hope I didn't take too long writing up my thoughts, and you had a chance to read them. Or else that you saw the same things I did, of course .
Barbarian peace. We still want it, I'm pretty sure...but I can now see a point where that might no longer be true. We have a lot of lairs inside our lands that would be nice to clear and improve; maybe get some loot in the process. It would also be easier to conquer barbarian cities than to attempt to flip them.
With the copper cities and Gates starting up, it's not too long now before we'll want to declare on somebody: I propose that our first target should be the barbs.
Granted, that's probably another 50 turns yet, so we have time. I just want to get people thinking in that direction, so we have a consensus when the time arrives.
(July 21st, 2015, 13:53)Mardoc Wrote: Steinvik should put up a Gate-synergy building before the gate. Probably a carnival if we're still trying for the Catacombs.
Graelingvig should probably work a tile instead of the Artist now that it's claimed the gold tile. Which I can't believe Einion let us get away with
Good point on Graelingvig. Similarly, the capital should fire all its specialists after it pops its (non-bard, fingers crossed) great person and steal a bunch of mines to speed along the Mage's Guild and Catacomb Libralus.
Once we have the Catacomb, then every city automatically gets a spawning building and gate first makes sense. Also, once we're out of golden age and can whip, it can be a good idea to whip the most expensive building first, then the cheaper buildings can be whipped before full regrowth.
(July 21st, 2015, 13:53)Mardoc Wrote: Plus it's one of the prereqs for Gambling Houses, which go nicely with Gates
We can build Gambling Houses without Currency, but they don't spawn Revelers until we have Currency. Kind of tricky, and it confused me in my SP game.
(July 21st, 2015, 14:25)DaveV Wrote: Once we have the Catacomb, then every city automatically gets a spawning building and gate first makes sense. Also, once we're out of golden age and can whip, it can be a good idea to whip the most expensive building first, then the cheaper buildings can be whipped before full regrowth.
Yes, it's not going to be true in general, but I think it's true in this case. I think Steinvik can find 280 hammers before the cap can find 700 - and a three-pop whip is about the most we can expect from Steinvik in either case, whether it's the last 90 hammers of the Gate or the entire Carnival. So we might as well get the Carnival's benefits while we're working on the Gate.
] trade (in some order) might give more econ benefit than currency.
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