Civ 5 We Hardly Knew Ye [Spoilers]

[T-hawk]

Hey, that's 4 times more tiles than the city had when Petra was built, right?

Yeah, there aren't any deep slingshots in this area of the tech tree. Everything takes too many prerequisites, you have to get everything in the renaissance era before you get to any better naval techs.

I only ever built Alhambra in pre-BNW culture games because of the +20%.

[chumchu]

Why so low on trade routes? Production ships should be great at this point, paying themselves in 10-15 turns and you have 3 coastal cites allowing for 6 such routes.

Your tech order seems a bit unfocused. If you go for steel, gunpowder, chemistry, why not go for fertilizer to get all the passive bonii? The other common path is to go for SM to get the science before heading to them. And finally, shouldn't leaning tower have a higher priority than chemistry as Persia with CI? It gives you precious great artist points as well as a free engineer for Taj Mahal. 20 turns of golden age and 4 happiness should be great for both the snowball and for naval wars.

[Ichabod]

Why so low on trade routes? Production ships should be great at this point, paying themselves in 10-15 turns and you have 3 coastal cites allowing for 6 such routes.

Your tech order seems a bit unfocused. If you go for steel, gunpowder, chemistry, why not go for fertilizer to get all the passive bonii? The other common path is to go for SM to get the science before heading to them. And finally, shouldn't leaning tower have a higher priority than chemistry as Persia with CI? It gives you precious great artist points as well as a free engineer for Taj Mahal. 20 turns of golden age and 4 happiness should be great for both the snowball and for naval wars.

Trade routes are great, and I feel really bad for not filling them. The deal is that I had other priorities to build before them when the new TR spots were gained. I wanted to fill all TRs with Cargo Ships, but I only had 2 coastal cities, which were busy building Universities, Satrap Courts (for happiness, which I found to be more important), Workshops, Aqueducts and now the boats I need to attack Yuris. So, I'd say it's about competing priorities, rather than neglecting the power of them. I may very well be off in my calculations about what would be more profitable, but there was some thought behind it.

There's a Caravan ready next turn in Pinot Noir, so I'll be 5/7. I should probably get a food TR to my Capital from Gordium, but, again, there are so many things I want to build in Gordium... Besides, a food TR to the Capital right now might end up in my Civ growing past my happiness production ratio.

Regarding my tech order, again there's a method to the madness, even if it's perhaps not a very good one. I was heading to Fertilizers, but decided to backtrack after Chemistry. The thing is, the extra food from Fertilizers wouldn't be that much (I have a lot of irrigated farms, so it'd mostly be the +1 food from plantations and pastures) and I don't really need it. It'd look nice in the demo screen, but I'm already growing past my happy Cap, so even more food isn't that great. I think I'll get a happy spike when the Forbidden Palace is ready (I'm building it in Oledavy's ex-Capital), but it'll probably be filled by a new city, so I feel like I'll always be pressed for happiness.

On the other hand, Chemistry helps me with what I think was my main bottleneck, production. I have limited amounts of hills and a lot of my cities are working all avaiable ones. So, Chemistry gives a little boost in my yields and I think it fits well in the timing of reaching Scientific Theory. If I went straight from Education to Scientific Theory, I wouldn't have enough hammers to get the Public Schools, together with all other things I need. Now, I'm feeling better with my production capabilities, after getting some workshops built and with the extra hammers from Chemistry. The focus on Public Schools now is to get quickly to the Naval techs (I'm hoarding great scientists for the same reason too).

The point about Leaning Tower is pretty interesting. But would it really give me another GA? LT would give 2 GArtist points per turn, since the most base GA points I can get is 8, if I'm not mistaken. I'm 2 turns away from my second Great Artist and I don't expect the game to be on for long enough to get the 3rd one. And if it is, it'll only take a little longer for me to get there without LT (8 GPP instead of 10 GPP, is not that big of a difference). Finally, in that case, LT would never get me to a 4th GArtist, which means the whole thing wouldn't really amount to that much (that's just a guesstimate, I may very well be wrong here).

The Engineer to rush Taj is indeed a nice idea, but I can very well build Taj with hammers too (I'm getting there on the way to Public Schools). I don't think I can argue that, in my current position, Alhambra is a better build than Leaning Tower, but I'm probably at a point where I can get both, though they are not really needed. We'll see, it's indeed an interesting idea.

By the way, is the GP from LT really free? Or is it one of those that messes up your GPP progression?

With all that said, though, I can't deny that I'm a bit unfocused in my plans. I'm a bit of an unfocused player and this large gaps between turns don't really help me, since I tend to forget my plans and ideas for the game.

[T-hawk]

chumchu, I think that's going a bit too far on what lurkers should offer as advice.

[T-hawk]

The Leaning Tower doesn't give GA points, that was only pre-BNW.  And the great person isn't really free as it does increment the cost counter.

Cargo ships take a bit longer than you might think to pay back.  It happens in 10-15 turns, but that's counting from when the cargo ship finishes, so 20-30 turns from when you start to build one, and so other things might be a higher priority.

[chumchu]

About advice, I wanted to get some strategy discussion going. PM me if there is something in particular you reacted to.

I agree with a general assessment that production is the main bottleneck in this era and in multiplayer. However, I would probably have prioritized cargo ships over universities and try to make up the science by going public schools before chemistry. Don't know if that is better. I am also a somewhat unfocused player when there is a lot of waiting between turns.

I mean the 25% gpp. With the limitations on great artist points that might make a difference. But if it does not give an extra person before the end that does not matter.

It's more correct to count things from when you start the build but is easier to count it from when it is finished. That I can estimate it without the knowing the production of the city. It is a good approximation if you use it to compare build of similar size like a cargo ship or a workshop. Since cargo ships are reasonably cheap you have to factor in that they pay back faster than more expensive things like universities or factories.

[Ichabod]

After my Frigate one-shoted the defending Composite Bow, the knight was free to take the Barb Camp, which was a mission from Singapore.



Insta-Alliance and I get +7 happy as a result, about what I was expecting from building the Forbidden Palace. You could say that this is just the game giving me free stuff, but there are elements of gameplay here. I have two policies in Patronage, for the +20 influence resting point, and I prioritized Astronomy and exploration, since I knew from the map there would be more City States. Finally, I had to bring a unit here.

I'll probably give some gold to Singpore to keep the alliance, too. +7 happiness is just a lot.



I finished a Caravan in Pinot Noir and moved it to Ectabana. I'll use it for a production TR to Tarsus, which is my weaker Coastal city in the continent. I'm still planning to get those ships to bully Yuris, so I think it makes sense to invest in it.

Speaking of Ships, I'm up to 3 Frigates, a Privateer and some Caravels. I'm pretty sure I can conquer most Yuris coastal cities in one turn with these ships - the Frigates are really powerful, from what I can see. Not that it matters if I capture in one turn or more, there's really not may ways for Yuris to defend, I think. I know he's Songhai and they have a bonus to land units when they are embarked. Not sure exactly how that works, but I doubt they can withstand more advanced firepower.

Anyway, I'm getting more ships than the ones I currently have (I'm guessing I'll have one more privateer and one more Frigate when I start the attack). We'll see how trigger happy I get in the next few turns.

There's also this:



I'm really close to my second GArt, for the next GA. Keep in mind that I also have The Great Lighthouse, so my boats are really, really fast. I'm still a long way from a Great Admiral, though.



Yuris cities have very low defense. 15, 16 defense is what I was facing against Oledavy and Pindicator, with way worse units. When I attack Kukia, I have to remember to bully Mombasa, which will complete a quest for Almaty, prompting an Alliance (and free Ivory resource, which I lack). There's also some science quests ending soon, and I'm on the lead in all of them. It's a good thing to have some spare happiness when I attack, because I'll need it to raze the cities. There's perhaps some merit in keeping Kukia, as a sort of forward base, where I can rest my ships (ships can't heal out of borders). I'll think about it.

[Ichabod]

The turn started with the message that 2 Civs stole technologies from me. One from my Capital, where I have my Spy stationed, the other from Chardonnay. I'm pretty sure Yuris stole Chemistry, which goes to show that he's not really worried by a naval attack. He's actually sending a Cargo Ship my way... Well, it's certainly better this way for me.



I got my second GArt of the game, which I'll save for when the attack happens, so about 5t or so from now. It'll help me getting the Taj Mahal too, which will chain the GAs. Worth noticing that I'm Persia and I have the Chichen Itza, so my GAs last double the time.





This turn I've spent my GWriter for a culture boost, to get a new policy. I chose the +1 science from trading posts/+17% science from Unis, which gave me something around 40 science. That's very nice. I'm up to 320 science, but if I stagnate cities focusing on beakers, I can probably get close to 400 beakers, without working wasteful tiles.



In other news, the AI finally made its move. Russia settled a second city, which I hope will be converted to my religion soon. Interesting to note that Russia settled Pindicator's island before settling their own island, which is basically the same as this one. Go figure...



And they actually have an extra settler! On the previous turn, it was on the tile 1NW, which is a great city, in my opinion. It'd have been an awesome Capital for Dave, though it seems it would require quite a lot of movement to get there (I think it'd be worth it, but that was impossible to know from the starting vision). But the AI decided not to settle there and kept moving to a unelegible position... I'll keep watching to see what is the AI big plan!



Maps, annoying results from turn 1 to turn 125.

[Ichabod]

Past few turns have been fairly uneventful and I played them during not the most appropriate hours, so I ended up with just two screenshots to show you.



I have a quest to spread my religion to Ife, but I didn't realize the size of the city and the one spread I had left ended up not being enough for a conversion. I need to send a TR this way to get the last followers. An alliance means just a bit of faith, which isn't anything close to spectacular, but at least it makes me feel alright by having lots of CS allies.



That's the third Mosque I buy. I'll see how many I can get before the next era and the cost increase.At best 3 more, I'd say.

[chumchu]

Religious buildings are great with piety or a heavy faith pantheon. Without either of those I would only consider pagodas.