[Spoilers] Pindicator already misses slavery, and other out-of-context quotes

[pindicator]

Turn 094

A really nice pace this weekend, and we're already 3 turns farther along.

Internationally, Krill planted his 7th city this last turn. Japper has built a settler and I expect him to plant in our contended area. I'm not too upset about not planting that pink dot in his face because I'm pretty sure I can still have a nice border with him on the southern end of those mountain ranges. Alhambram has pushed out 2 settlers in the last 2 turns, so we all should be at 7 cities pretty shortly.
Naturally, this has made me want to start another settler of my own; I've been holding back on the settlers as I've pushed for district development here, but there are still plenty of good spots to grab in my near vicinity.


So yes, on t91 I picked up Mathematics, with the aim to push on to Education and get Universities down in my 2 campus cities. The timing was particularly nice because I was coming up on the game's 2nd Great Scientist - and while this was not the prize that Hypatia was, having him get the eureka for Education (195 science) as well as another random Medeival/Rennaisance tech (150 - 270 sci) and inspiration for civic (100 - 327).




Now ... the game doesn't do something as stupid as having him trigger eurekas on technologies you've already discovered, right? I'm going to be able to help direct him towards preferable targets, right? In any case, it seems best to sit on him for now. He did give the inspiration for Education just for getting him, which was the big reason I went for this now. Education is now due on t96, and my libraries are coming online right in time. I chopped the library at Forgottonia on t91 and the library at Acadia will naturally finish on t96. Then it will be universities at both cities.

On t92 I also picked up Civil Service




I dont' think I've ever gotten the eureka for Civil Service in time for it to actually matter. In this game I knew there was no point to bother, though i did push growth in the capital and in Absaroka - but my largest city now is at size 7. I think the only way to get this is to really keep your empire small AND focus on growing a city large.

Civil Service also meant it was time for a policy change:




I honestly thought I was going to swap off of Natural Philosophy, but when it came down to it I couldn't think of a better alternative right now. Perhaps Scripture to add a bit more faith, but +5 faith didn't seem quite as worthwhile as +4 science. (In fact, I'm starting to run out of decent buildings to buy with faith!) Even the choice of Colonization seems a bit wasted here - I'm putting some token production into a settler at Forgottonia, but the key production choice right now is Limes.

Now one thing I wish I would have documented better for this thread was my earlier policy strategy. I think I've lined things up nicely for what's going to happen over the next few turns. It started with a diversion from my beeline to pick up Feudalism: while approaching Feudalism I put several builders in production with the +30% builder production policy, leaving them all within a few turns of completion. So when Feudalism came in on turn 86 I had 3 almost-done builders that I was then able to get out with 5 charges each. (I have so many jungles to chop I could honestly go for 3 more right now!) These builders now have a task with Limes: they are going to chop stones into overflow and help me get a number of new districts in my empire. Specifically, we really need some Commercial and Industrial districts. (And an encampment - when am I going to finally build an encampment!?)

Here is the setup at Yazoo:




We removed the quarry from the stone this turn: next turn when the walls are almost at completion then I will harvest the stone and the overflow will almost complete the Commercial District I have set. It was tempting to do this for an industrial district first (the industrial district will go just south of the commercial), but I need trade routes more than I need the hammers. Especially if I'm going to finally get my faith spread throughout my cities (and get the eurekas for Medeival Guilds that I really want).

That builder will go north as soon as it chops that stone out and do the same at Absaroka for another commercial district. Actually, for some reason I haven't locked in Absaroka's district - that was a mistake made because 10 turns ago I wasn't sure if I wanted to lock in any of those districts and instead try for getting the 40% discount for having none in place. However, I miscounted a little bit and right now I'm sitting on 6 completed districts (3 holy, 2 campus, 1 theatre) and 7 potential types to be built (holy, campus, encampment, commercial, industrial, encampment, entertainment, theatre) so I decided I would just save the bonus for industrial and encampments and just get these commercial districts chopped out. Yazoo will probably finish the commercial hub around turn 96. The builder will get north and chop out the hub there for a finish around t102. The capital is even getting in on the action:




Jefferson is also set up to chop into a district next turn, but it will be chopping the forest into a commercial district. I'm saving the stone for Lost Dakota, as I think that city will need the extra production boost more. This builder will have 2 more charges to use, which will be for connecting the Tea and then mining the grass hill to the east. You'll also notice that Jefferson has an aquaduct pre-placed: that is probably going to be it's next build after the Commercial District finishes. We have an upcoming inspriation for Military Engineering (Niter!) and I really do want to grow this city as high as I can.

I'm really not sure at all what to do with the districts here, at either Jefferson or Lost Dakota. Which probably means i need to think more about my overall strategy. Lost Dakota actually has a really nice spot for an industrial district to it's north, and a good campus adjacency to it's west, but both those spots are multiple tiles away. Commercial Hubs, Holy Sites, and Campuses are always going to be needed, regardless of terrain. Jefferson could put a harbor to it's south, between the two fishes .... but I don't see an outward harbor as being too necessary yet. (Although it would be nice to get a ship out there to map out the water and see if I can connect around the map across the ocean.)

Anyway, lots of questions here. Entertainment District would be nice too. Maybe try for a Colosseum build, where I would get LOTS of culture with how well overlapped my cities are.

Finally the jungled north:




Despite the lack of sign, I think Transylvania's first district is going to be my first encampment. Ideally I'd plant one on the hill between the rice and truffles, so I could watch the south bank of the river. I'm a little wary of the cost of buying that tile right now. So we're hoping the next tile that city grabs will be the forested hill my archer is on. I suppose it wouldn't be awful if I turned one of those hills into an encampment, to defend the pass, but it would give any southern push by Japper an easier go. It would also be nice for Acadia to put an encampment to the west of the campus, to shore up defenses. But I don't know when I'll get the opportunity to place that, since I am put into my university play there next. And getting industrial districts here in both these cities would go a long way to helping them both become production monsters.

This also needs a word for Japper, who has parked the majority of his army where we can see it. He doens't have sight on my archers or swords (that I know of) - and in fact, I don't think I've even seen him scout out this terrain. I do expect a settler from him soon, somewhere around where his western Legion now is.

My plan for Japper is to push for Stirrups next and get a few knights built. Due to the terrain I don't see how I can make a serious push to his core without naval support. Unless I find a way to alpha strike his army...


And an empire overview to end on:




I did buy a monument in Forgottonia this turn. Only have 1 monument left to buy, at the capital. There are still a few Granaries to set down, and a water mill or 2 would be nice. But I might just save up for an apostle and religion upgrade next.

[pindicator]

Turn 095

Go back and look at that Jefferson screenshot last turn:  all lined up perfectly for overflow into a Commercial Hub on that same tile I was going to chop.  And then I open up the turn to find that the walls finished.  Why did the walls finish when I didn't move any tiles or change any arrangement?  That is a wonderful question - so much for all that planning, instead I wasted 40 hammers on a walls and lose out on another 70ish production from overflow.  At least it was at Jefferson; that city has the production to overcome something like this.  And at least the game lets you chop into an empty queue:  that dropped the Commercial Hub build time down to 7 turns.  Still, that is very frustrating!




Well, at least Yazoo is still set up correctly.  1 turn away from completing it's walls, and we have the builder sitting on the stone.  So I click on the Harvest button ... and the game crashes.

Reload, replay the turn the same way, and this time the chopping works.  Commercial Hub due in 2 turns!  (If only I had 2 commercial hubs due in 2 turns....)




Here's the eastern end of the inland sea, for a view on Alhambram and the 2 cities of Krill that I have sight on.  Pity I couldn't get open borders from Alhambram.

[pindicator]

Turn 096

Divine Right & Education are in




Also, universities are more expensive than districts right now

[pindicator]

Turn 097

I thought about this a lot over the last day, and I decide to spend the money and plant the encampment:




Encampment wasn't shown in the screenshot, but it was placed on the hill tile that I purchased between the Truffles and Rice.  I was really considering the Industrial District, because that production would have been great.  But getting the coverage over the south end of the river just seems so much better. But between the control over a potential battle field in addition to getting a quest reward from Zanzibar (as I'm building commerce hubs) on top of the eureka needed for Military Tradition (accidentally went over 50% because I forgot about overflow). And this encampment was a truly 1 turn production, thanks to the extra +50% that Monarchy gives to walls. In fact, I've decided that Forgottonia is going to even use wall overflow for it's university build, as it seems like such a good way to accelerate production. (Forgottonia has no stone to chop, only a few forests.)

I also have to admit being a little surprised at Japper's settler showing up where it did. For one, his units are controlling the west side of the mountain range; it seems like I'd have a much easier time trying to take that city from the eastern edge of the mountains than if he placed it 1 tile west and made me approach from the west end. But maybe his scouting really isn't so good? This will make me more likely to try and and grab the western end of that river with a city of my own, although his archer holds the best location right now.

The other big production decision was down south at Yazoo. My first Commerce Hub finished there this turn, and I was debating between a Market straight-away (9t), or an Industrial District. In the end I picked neither, choosing the build the trader (6t) immediately. I'm going to want to get to 4 trade routes soon because of the inspiration for Medieval Faires.

I've also been thinking a bit more about what I need to do later on, and some things I really like aiming for soon is upgrading my religion to get Wats (need science), and just getting more faith generation in general so I can use Theology to rush-buy Rough Riders later on. Another reason I wish I had taken Earth Goddess instead of Divine Spark...

[pindicator]

This next turn I'm going to have another stone chop into walls for overflow, this time at Lost Dakota. This city I'm having a far more difficult time deciding what gets built because I haven't really figured what this city is doing for me yet. The default choice just might be the one I go for then.

I think the default/safe choice is to chop out a commercial hub along the river, 1W of the stone. I'm likely getting enough trade routes for Medieval Faires even without it, but more money and more trade routes are a solid choice in every situation.

Industrial Zone - I admit that this is what I most want to get built, just for the production bonus. But my problem is that the best location for this city requires purchasing at least 1 tile. Considering I just spent most of my gold on an encampment last turn, and I do want to save up for eventual crossbow upgrades ... I'm reluctant to but further tiles right now.

Entertainment District - This one is a little ambitious, but if I chopped out an Entertainment district in a central location I could then also have the capital build the Colosseum. If I can get to 20 production, that would make Colosseum a 16-turn build, which I'd consider very reasonable. It would also hit 5 cities, potentially 6 if I later add a filler on the south coast.

A downside is the capital is a little stressed for builds right now: after the Commercial District we need to build a market, caravan, and finish the aqueduct - all needed for upcoming eurekas and inspirations. I'm sure some concessions could be made but it is still a bit of a drawback.

Holy Site - if I plan on getting theocracy-purchased Rough Riders in ~50t then I'm going to need more faith production

Campus - if I plan on getting to Rifling within 50t then I'm going to need more science :lol:


I'd really like to pick up the wonder.
As much as faith generation is going to be needed, I think getting more trade routes is a better solution now.
Same with campus, though that seems closer.
If I didn't need to buy the tile i'd probably do the Industrial Zone.

So it's between going for the wonder or getting another commercial district

[pindicator]

Turn 098

With the encampment completing, we had a number of good rewards come to pass:





Not shown: The city-state Zanzibar's quest was for me to build an encampment, which got me to 3 envoys and an additional 4 gold per commercial hub - something that would influence another decision this turn. (FYI: THIS IS CALLED FORESHADOWING)


Internationally ... I revised a few numbers as I found that Krill built his first Theatre Square 4 turns ago (or whatever the Greek unique version of that is called), which means Krill is really at 6 cities (something I could have verified by just looking at the diplo window). Alhambram and Japper both laid down their 7th cities, catching up to me. But I feel good about my situation still because I still have twice as many districts as they do and a few more about to be chopped in. Stone is so strong in this game, I knew it was good, but I don't think I realized just how good stone was until now.

I changed my policies around again:




Retainers swapped out for Veterancy, as I'm still preferring production over everything else right now. The reduction in amenities did dropped my science a little. But more important is that I'm building a Stables in Transylvania and I wanted to drop that build time down: we'll be getting to Armories within 10 turns and I want to make sure I am ready to build the armory as soon as possible, because it's needed for the inspration for Gunpowder.

The other change was Urban Planning being swapped over for Meritocracy. Didn't I just say that production was preferred? Ok, it is, but not over the 9 culture a turn that Meritocracy gives me now (and as I chop in more districts that will only go up).

I wish I had been reading the other threads, but I really think this is a strong all-around strategy for abusing the overflow rules in this game:

1. Early game focus on expansion and avoid building walls in your cities.
2. Once you get to Monarchy switch to Limes
3. Chop every city when it's 1 turn away from completing it's walls. At +150% you'll be able to come close to completing districts from even a simple forest chop. Stone will 1-turn districts, as I've been able to do. In any case, that's why you've seen my district count explode lately.

So once again, showing that in action:




99 production with +150% from modifiers in Limes & Monachy government means I just chopped 247 hammers into that city.




Another 1-turn commerce hub.

I really wanted to build an Entertainment Center. I got the discount unlocked because I finally have built enough districts, so building an Entertainment District would have given me a lot of overflow for whatever I chose to build next. However, I just couldnt' get around when or how the capital was actually going to build it. Plus I realized that Zanzibar is giving me 4 gold per Commercial Hub - and I'm about to get up to 3 envoys in Lisbon for another 4 - so yeah, no brainer for the Commerce Hub.


Feeling really good about my position in game right now.

[Ichabod]

Turn 094

Take a look at the city screen to the bottom right. It shows Jefferson will complete walls in 1t, not 2t (like the interface does). You can never trust the game interface, it really lies (as you probably already know, but sometimes we don't notice it). I also noted some strange behaviour with locked and unlocked tiles from time to time.

Things are looking very good.

Is Valletta being useful?

[pindicator]

Ha, that's pretty funny that I captured the answer to my complaint about Jefferson's walls and didn't even realize it. That actually feels better knowing it was the UI rather than some other bug - maybe I'll have to go back to that turn and see if I can find what caused the UI to change and me to miss that, but I'm ok with knowing now. I have been going into every city that has a time-critical build and manually reselecting the build in order to make sure I'm getting the correct number - but we are also almost done with wall builds and overflow tricks, at least in the near term.

There are a few more buildings I could faith rush with Valletta still - Absaroka and Forgottonia both are at housing cap and could use a granary, and Jefferson still needs it's monument. But I'm starting to think it's time to upgrade the religion and that it may be better to save up for the 400 faith required there. (Or maybe it would be better to just save up for theocracy - we are only 3 civics away if I choose to beeline.)

Conquering Valletta is certainly in the cards for later in the game. Right now my army is sitting on the Roman border and it would take too long / give Rome too much of an opening to move it south. So I'll need to come at Valletta either with knights, and I'm not quite ready to build new units yet.

I am anxious to expand my city count again though. This has been a good cycle of development but there are still many good locations to grab.

[Ichabod]

What beliefs are you thinking of choosing?

A little hint. Apparently, you can upgrade your religion with an Apostle as long as it has 3 charges. So, if you get a promotion that adds charges, you can spread your religion a bit before spending the Apostle.

I think your suggested game progression path is really powerful. I would add that Civil Service is aalso a sort of beeline civic, as the +1 culture to districts is really, really powerful.

[pindicator]

t099

Construction done.  Knights next (Stables?).  I need to get a few heavy chariots out first, so I won't finish the tech if I haven't done that in a few turns.  No fireworks this turn, just moving builders to chop overflows for Forgottonia (going into the Unviersity because this city has no production) and Absaroka (for another commercial hub).  We are about 9 turns away from getting 2 more envoys, and that will get us to 3 envoys at Lisbon and 4 more gold for every commerce hub.

What beliefs are you thinking of choosing?

Wats are the big one for me right now.  I don't want to build more campuses than is needed, but I'm probably going to have to build a few more.  Meeting House is always tempting, and with my faith push I am even tempted by the +5 building (synagogue?), but I need to keep pushing science so Wats.

With the other belief category it would be between Tithe or Stewardship, but neither of them give a huge boost right now.  However, they're both passive boosts, but I think I would rather have Wats next. Put another way: I'm either going to start saving up for a Theocracy buy now, or I'm going to pick Wats to continue developing my economy.

A little hint. Apparently, you can upgrade your religion with an Apostle as long as it has 3 charges. So, if you get a promotion that adds charges, you can spread your religion a bit before spending the Apostle.

I think your suggested game progression path is really powerful. I would add that Civil Service is aalso a sort of beeline civic, as the +1 culture to districts is really, really powerful.

Oh, that's a good hint. I was wondering if you could use a charge before enhancing the religion.

And I'm already at Civil Service. I held off a little bit before swapping to Meritocracy for the +1 culture per districts because I didn't have as many. But now that I'm at 9, soon to be 11 districts, getting that extra culture is a no-brainer. I've opened a huge culture lead on Rome now; actually, Rome is the only civ that I'm not producing double the culture of.

Anyway, next turn we'll chop out another district. And then finishing the commerce hub at the capital in 4 turns will get us to 11 districts overall.