WW25 - Game Thread

[Jkaen]

Oh and i agree with mattimeo, I would be surprised if even a full seer (which we never use anymore as they are too powerful) got the number of charges for his power. So either he is a wolf which i dont think is the case, or they took a big gamble which paid off

[Jowy]

How is voting for zak on day 2 easy targetting

Didn't you vote for both Zak and Slowcheetah?

[uberfish]

Rereading again trying to discard all my assumptions and i'm still not finding much. I'm going to just post thoughts as I get them and see if anything resonates with or helps someone. It's day 5 and I feel utterly lost and without direction after missing my shot.

I'm still uneasy about the vig meta but really want to hunt the last wolf today because of 1) the uncertainty concerning the potential SK / 4th party, missing kills, 2) Lewwyn being blocked and a kill still happening. honestly if not for (2) i'd still be looking at the brick/lewwyn pair because of the vig situation. But brick is mainly under suspicion of being SK not wolf, and lewwyn didn't do the kill (unless he has some ability that can get around a block but that's low percentage.)

noticed this one from jowy night 1 which I guess I must have subconsciously remembered somewhere

Q: his post tone scream villager. anyone know if Q good liar?

which I'm reading as jowy had a bad gut feel on Q somehow, I asked him about Q's potential lying today as Q's posts have generally sounded reasonable and helpful, but I have an uneasy gut feel on Q too and I can't put my finger on why.

[Jkaen]

How is voting for zak on day 2 easy targetting

Didn't you vote for both Zak and Slowcheetah?

Yes, but my public vote - the one I had to argue and take heat for was for zak.

[Jkaen]

which I'm reading as jowy had a bad gut feel on Q somehow, I asked him about Q's potential lying today as Q's posts have generally sounded reasonable and helpful, but I have an uneasy gut feel on Q too and I can't put my finger on why.

The main source of my uneasyness is that I keep looking at Q's power and seeing it as much weaker than mine, and wondering if thats a werewolf thing, but then I remember we have a vanilla villager claim which destroys that whole line

[Lewwyn]

Well tone is very nebolous, I cant really defend that and convieniently you dont have to show evidence for it

I know which is one of the reasons I haven't been listing it as a reason to this point. The fact remains that I've thought you pretty distant as though you've been trying to do just enough.

Weak arguments, you are joking, given some of the crap that has been put forward in this game, I dont see how mine are the weakest, but by all means put forward an example and I will explain my thinking

I'll see if I can find something to illustrate what I mean, but for example this morning I was reading your vote onto novice. Which I found to be halfhearted and a bit of a bandwagon vote.

Finally how is going after you and uberfish today easy targetting?

Uberfish is easy because he just killed a villager in the day with wolf flavor. And one of the first posts after it happened was you eagerly jumping on him for it. This:

Well last night I was suspicious of uber's power as I said. And now with the early (before Zak has any chance to defend himself or comment) missed vig kill, and the flavour accompanying it, I think my vote is clear

Überfish

felt abrupt.

Can you give anything else as to why Uber should be lynched? I will go back read about your suspicions on Uber's power.

[Mattimeo]

I think Brick's vote and subsequent leaving on Matt is really suspicious. I really don't think scum would have a powerful tracker/watcher combo power role. With two factions how do you balance that? And why would scum reveal on day 2 and make themselves a target for the other scum faction? It just doesn't make sense. Brick's vote on Mattimeo is incredibly scummy... here I go talking myself into lynching Brick. FYI, upon rereading a bit, Novice was sure Brick was a Serial Killer, which I could buy.

As I've said, I'm not sure I buy the SK theory, but I can totally see BRick as the other wolf.

I just don't see how much of his play has actually been any good for the town. He deliberately restricting his ability to communicate for the two and a half days (and lying about it being forced). He joined a lynch that seemed primarily based on meta-speculation *based on his lies*. He pushed for specifics from me/Lewwyn/pindicator while being quite reluctant to reveal any details of his own role. His attacks, when he *hasn't* had scum served up on a platter (he knew novice had been blocked by pindicator N2, resulting in a missing kill, and didn't actually have much interaction with Gazglum until Gazglum started attacking him) have been completely uninspired - today's on me consisted of me not having fully divulged my role at a time suitable for him (withdrawn when called on it) and coming back because my "play has felt somewhat off". Yes, that seems the best he can do if he doesn't have scum handed to him on a platter right now.

The entirety of Day 3 spent focusing on novice can't really be counted in his favour. A wolf is just as likely to want a ghoul dead as a villager, and if you can focus on the one person all day long you're a lot less likely to give away any interaction tells.
Gazglum going after BRick in a last ditch effort to save his own life on D4 seems to be pretty much the main point propping up BRick's innocence at this point. And really, when you're on the block like that, why not try to distance your only remaining buddy as much as possible?
Also interesting to note is this little snippet, immediately after Gazglum's seer claim:

unvote

Here's a thought: What if Pindicator is a wolf? No kill on purpose to drive in an easy and guiltless mislynch?

That unvote is from Gazglum, btw, who he didn't get back on to until 3 hours before deadline, well after the lynch was actually decided.

And then, today he claims he's not going to be around for a period that happens to include the entire night period? Well, wouldn't that be a nice alibi if we get a kill tonight, and he definitely wasn't around to submit it?

TL;DR: BRickAstley

[Mattimeo]

The main source of my uneasyness is that I keep looking at Q's power and seeing it as much weaker than mine, and wondering if thats a werewolf thing, but then I remember we have a vanilla villager claim which destroys that whole line

I don't think a vanilla claim destroys that at all. This is clearly a role madness game; being a vanilla villager is almost akin to being an innocent child, so often does it turn up as a singleton role.

[Jkaen]

So my post from yesterday, while I was happy on Gazglum, I brought up essentially working out my next target was:

Hmm other thought that has occured to me following the thinking through.

Given what we know only 1 person is claiming to have sanity as a cause rather than effect of their ability (Brick) (obviously we dont know dead roles), also given the causes of low sanity seem to mean the village is doing badly, I think we can transpose that low sanity figure = more powerful village (note I refer just to the number, not the causes of dropping the number).

That means that uberfishes claimed power is:
Lowers sanity without harming village (pro)
Minor seer power (pro)
Vig kill (pro)

We are having it sold as the sanity loss being there to balance out the positives, but I would argue its three positive abilities rolled into 1 power.

If uber is telling the truth and brick is lying, then I see no power announced that remotely cares what the sanity is.

Am I missing something here?

Pind also prior to the Gaz result seemed pretty interested in him to

Well, uberfish seems the most likely scum of the 3 vigs to me. His whole ability is powering up and dropping the sanity level, and it seems most village abilities gets stronger or activate with lower sanity levels. Which makes sense: sanity drops as the village does worse or as the game moves on. So that's my best bet.

But I don't like uberfish. IT's just a gut feeling. He brings up the double vote more than anybody else, and yet it was on him day 1? It just looks suspicoius. And the fact that his ability lowers sanity to unlock additional kills. Well, it looks like from Brick's ability that lowering sanity tends to unlock additional town abilities, which makes sense: lower sanity means the village is losing and means that the game is moving towards the end. But why would an ability both help the village in lowering sanity and help the village in gaining another kill? Maybe he's just a pro village role?

Although he gave him credit for supporting the gaz lynch, but i think that lynch was a done deal by then.

Then the vig shot, not only did it miss, but also I felt it was rushed and didnt give a chance to have a reasoned debate on it, essentially he took it fast and if you do that you take a bigger share of either the praise or the blame accordingly.

[Jkaen]

Sorry add to that is the feeling that one of the vig roles is a lie