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WW11 - Civilization

Catwalk Wrote:slowcheetah, my main suspicion of you (as pointed out earlier) is that I don't believe you came up with all the material for your accusations of me on your own. Combined with fairly sporadic contributions otherwise, it looks a lot to me like someone was coaching you on that campaign.

Why do you believe someone was coaching me on that campaign? I came at you with a convoluted theory about you baiting Lewwyn, in hindsight it looks wrong because more information has opened up. Do you think I'm incapable of coming up with that on my own?
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Catwalk Wrote:slowcheetah, my main suspicion of you (as pointed out earlier) is that I don't believe you came up with all the material for your accusations of me on your own. Combined with fairly sporadic contributions otherwise, it looks a lot to me like someone was coaching you on that campaign.

I agree with Lewwyn's lie argument. I think Selrahc is stretching that particular issue, especially since the core of Lewwyn's argument was valid. I'm highly likely to vote for slowcheetah or Selrahc tonight, still preferring slowcheetah over Selrahc.

Likely my last post until near the deadline: the slowcheetah half makes some sense; from my end, I know how hard it can be to find great reasons to go after targets, so I think there's some merit to Catwalk's suspicions on this front. I'm still torn between MJW and slowcheetah.
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After voting for Mardoc, based upon the "analysis summary" post after Meiz's death and Sareln's logic/observations ... I was caught up in a conundrum.

Primarily, while both could be wolves, I realized how much smoke I was slinging around earlier, so I wanted to focus on a particular target.

So I had to ask myself, who is more likely a wolf? Lewwyn or Selrahc.

I will go ahead and note that I hold nothing personal against either of these people, and would gladly play on the same team as either of them. Just want to mention that before people think otherwise, because anything else is simply untrue.

after recent events my head was spinning and I wasn't sure of much anything anymore, especially since Ichabod turned out to be a wolf.

I fear that my case against Lewwyn is filled with the same notion of self-importance that sponsored my initial rants during Night 1. While there is some possibility there, I also believe that Mardoc/Lewwyn are a second Mason's pair, and I find it less likely that we had 2 wolf masons ... possible yes, but I would like to look at other possibilities.
(yes I admit if they aren't Mason pairs they could still be wolves that talk to each other, but that ties a single person case into a double person case and I want to avoid that for now)

Towards the end of Day 2, it really felt like Selrahc was setting me up for a mislynch. Yes, I know, it was mostly my own fault ... but things like "I have no I dea why anyone is not voting Scooter right now" are very similar to Gaspar's own movement to end the discussion. Honestly its as if either of them simply wanted anyone defending the "wolf Ichabod" to be mislynched for an easy wolf victory. While it seemed that Gaspar had merely made up his mind and wouldn't hear of anything else (anti- the Ichabod vote), Selrahc seemed to be earnestly goading suspicion towards anyone that defended Ichabod. And this was POST the Zak reveal. As a wolf he would have known that the jig was up, and might as well stir up as much controversy as possible over what other people have said. Still, for both Gaspar and Selrahc, I chalk this up as a (-1), although for Selrahc I am leaning towards a (-1.5) or even a (-2).

Still, if this was the only fishy action by Selrahc I think I would have let it slide.

While Selrahc's power usage on me, at face value, is nothing wolfish, what was he really trying to accomplish?

1. try to cover his own possible role blocker abilities

2. to keep me from voting him out of self preservation (when it seemed like it was going to be a two horse race between Selrahc and I)

3. to keep a new and currently non influential villager from voting rolleye

4. To waste his power as to not look suspicious-> topping it off with letting people know before Uberfish did his thing.

5. As part of 4, its quite possible that he had another wolf use their power, and then decided to "take the credit" although this is a bit farfetched I know.

Beyond that, other people that seem to be villager (Lewwyn excluded of course, just as a necessary precaution) are getting a wolf-read on Selrahc as well.

Scooter did, Rowain did ... although I suppose this is potentially, how do you say, "appeal to the dead"? As this is iirc only the second time that Scooter rolled villager I don't think its fair to say he is a proved "excellent villager" although his previous experience as a wolf might give some insight.

And then Novice, that is likely a villager, also is getting a wolfish read on Selrahc.

More than that ... what people are saying about Selrahc does have a bell of truth quality to it.

1. Selrahc is fairly experienced at this game

2. Selrahc was not willing to push his own case forward, even as late as the Renaissance

3. Selrahc was adamant about Ichabod well before Zak was proven legit/innocent.

(although my prior 'conspiracy theorist' notions may have been concerned with Zak (and Rowain) at the time ... I still think point 3 is odd)

4. Selrahc wanted to be seen as "reluctant but willing" against Scooter.

reluctant for cover? perhaps. 'Willing' in order to get on Gaspar's good side? Perhaps.

The total sum of Selrahc's movements seem to be 'self preservation'.

I go forward knowing that as many as 2 people may end up dragging me to the chopping block, either this day or the next, but I have said what I feel needs to be said.

I am no longer confused, my head is no longer spinning, and with as little smoke as possible, I'm going for Selrahc.

I've got a good deal of schoolwork + classes to work on, but I'll try to get back at least one more time before the lynch.
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Well it's the last day of my university term so I probably won't be back online tonight (pub).
You all know my thoughts on the current situation.
I hope to still be alive tomorrow.
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Tasunke has actually presented an argument, rather than a smear.
I disagree with it, but it is at least based on reasoning rather than a facade of reasoning.

Quote:So I had to ask myself, who is more likely a wolf? Lewwyn or Selrahc.

And your analysis only looked at me? Because I am not seeing any detailed takedown of Lewwyn in this post.

Quote:"I have no I dea why anyone is not voting Scooter right now"

I actually said Ichabod, not scooter. :neenernee
Because.. well..

Quote:3. Selrahc was adamant about Ichabod well before Zak was proven legit/innocent.

I was adamant that Zak was legit. Because the main thing against Zak being legit was the idea that I was some sort of wolf roleblocker being saved. I knew that wasn't true, and it seemed like a silly idea however you spun it.

The idea being presented was that Zak was a wolf. And that I was a wolf roleblocker, who it was vitally important to save. So Zak was going to throw either another wolf, or a villager into the lynch to save me. That is an absolutely ludicrous argument, whether or not you know that I am not a wolf. There was absolutely no logical gameplay rationale for not testing Zak's claim.

Also, frankly, since I was the other person on the block I am *allowed* to be supportive of arguments that save me. And even to play up their obviousness.

Quote:While Selrahc's power usage on me, at face value, is nothing wolfish, what was he really trying to accomplish?

Proving that I was not a roleblocker. Which was a roundabout proof that Zak was not running some sort of bluff to save a roleblocker.

Quote:1. try to cover his own possible role blocker abilities

How can you possibly think I'm a roleblocker? I don't think you understand how a roleblocker works. It doesn't retroactively undo powers. Under your utterly stupid idea of roleblocking, if a baner makes a save and is then roleblocked, the person they save is killed by the roleblock. If you roleblock a vigilante two days after they kill, the person they killed gets back up and continues playing. It's just.. ugh. What?

You literally can't be that dumb. So you must not be considering things at all.
Think. Things. Through.


Quote:2. Selrahc was not willing to push his own case forward, even as late as the Renaissance

Did my argument against Catwalk not register to you people? Scooter seems to have completely ignored it too.
I spent day 1 and 2 pushing Catwalk. I did very little on day 3, other than talk about scooters ability. I have spent today pushing for MJW, and looking at people try to kick up spurious arguments against me.
This idea that I've been unwilling to put cases against people is not true at all. People should really stop using it as the centrepoint of their arguments against me...

Quote:4. Selrahc wanted to be seen as "reluctant but willing" against Scooter.

What I said on that day has since been echoed by other people. Broad consensus without much discussion is not a good thing. I was happy to lynch scooter, but I was a little unsettled by the lack of other candidates.

I appear to be being harangued for not bringing up other candidates. Just like Lewwyn, Gaspar, Novice.. or really every single other person on that day apart from Sareln or MJW.

So I noticed a problem, and didn't present a solution. That's not massively helpful, but it is no worse than everyone else in the game.

Quote:The total sum of Selrahc's movements seem to be 'self preservation'.

No. I heavily disagree.
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No one wants Cyneheard to hang? Fine, I'll go back to slowcheetah. The past day has seemed more wolfish to me than the previous few.

And...I think it's obvious that there's at least one wolf among slowcheetah, Selrahc, Lewwyn, Cyneheard; the way the vote fractured, and the arguments devolved, implies that we're at least not repeating scooter's day. Actually, to be more blunt, I think the remaining three are probably in this group:

Cyneheard
Gaspar
Lewwyn
MJW
Selrahc
Slowcheetah

I'm going offline for the weekend in about an hour, so I'll have to wait and see what happens. Hopefully I'm still alive on Sunday and a wolf is dead smile.

Gaspar, you're going to hate me for this, but I think the village needs more time to discuss, now that we're getting close to wolves. I'm going to activate the day version of my power, now. You should see the effects as soon as uber checks in again.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker

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Yes, if you have somehow extended the day I am indeed going to hate you for this. smile
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
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Quote:Gaspar, you're going to hate me for this, but I think the village needs more time to discuss, now that we're getting close to wolves. I'm going to activate the day version of my power, now. You should see the effects as soon as uber checks in again.

If it is a day extension power then this does seem like a very good day to use it on.
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Woah... I'll just switch to Selrahc in case it matters. Placeholder vote. I'll read the thread and wait for uberfish to confrim the day going on...
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I think that you're much much more invested and much more active then you pretend to be. -- lewwyn

lol post count.

Most of the above posts are just an fighting thing between Selrahc+SlowC vs. Lewwyn. My only real comments are that Selrahc suddenly saying that his night action proves he is not a role-blocker is very strange and that I think lewwyn is telling the truth.

If I have to chose between Selrahc and SlowC now I would go with Selrahc but it is very close. Selrahc has played before so I know him better and was attacked by Rowain and Scooter unlike SlowC.
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